GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

Anyway, this is a derail. Let's focus on Marion Millar and the women in Scotland.

Yes, how did we end up back to bloody toilets?!

"Graham Linehan isn’t bananas ffs! Is it bananas to care about the rights of women and children? If so, then many , many of the women on mumsnet must be bananas"

I mean... you said it. Apart from this little cabal we're all thinking it.

Possibly a correlation in the amount of Christians who are willing to accept communion wine and those who believe it is genuinely the blood of Christ?

49% of women say transwomen are women. Only 29% of women disagree. 54% of young people (18-24) think so too.

Suppose that were true - and as other posters have pointed out, it's not. But let's suppose for a moment that it's true. You have nearly a third of women who don't think trans women are women. What are you going to do about them? Compel them to accept trans women into women's changing rooms, women's toilets, women's sports, women-only swim sessions, women's organisations, women's domestic violence refuges, women's homeless shelters, women-only occupations (such as mammogram sonographer)?

Because if you do, you're going to run into problems pretty quickly. We're talking 10m women and girls. Do you think they don't count? Do you think they're just going to give in quietly?

@ArabellaScott

Poll from WingsOverScotland says no.

Asking 'which is closest to your idea of what a woman is' is NOT the same thing as asking if transwomen are women - I've looked and they don't seem to ask that question. Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to answer 'but they are both women' - so the YouGov poll seems far more reliable, to say the least.

Well, Corgi, if 49% of women are happy to give away women's rights, who are we to argue, eh?

@ArabellaScott

Possibly a correlation in the amount of Christians who are willing to accept communion wine and those who believe it is genuinely the blood of Christ?

Oh we better watch that we GC crowd don’t get accused of getting monies from the US right wing Christian groups... if so where my cheque I’ve got bills to pay 😂

''Do you think they're just going to give in quietly?''

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people. 10 million people - yet how many active 'gender criticals' are there? Probably less than three thousand, according to research. (If you want to see the research, go find it - I'm off out, bye x)

@Itsinthetreesitscoming

I see that Lorna Slater has tweeted #istandwithmeb. See that thread about why more people don't vote Green... Because they will always be on the side of an AGP who calls women cunts, rather than women whose views are allowed in law

Lorna Slater is a fool. She can stand with whoever she wants, she already stands within a dubious crowd anyway lead by a very dubious character but men still can’t be women and women can’t be men, no matter how much they wish they could.

When it's confirmed that the transwomen in question have penises, like 95% or so

It is very common, for example: twitter.com/search?q=dick%20(from%3Amebisdead)&src=typed_query&f=live

@Abhannmor

A new career beckons for this mebisdead person now that he is ' transitioning ' from bar work. I think he should open a micro brewery selling craft ales to like minded people. Needs a catchy name - I thought 'Cumbrain ' would attract his demographic. Although perhaps 'MacCumbrains 'given the location ?

😂👍😉

@BilindaB

''the vast, vast majority of people know fine well that humans are male and female ONLY. Women are not allowed to speak anymore''

49% of women say transwomen are women. Only 29% of women disagree. 54% of young people (18-24) think so too. I'm one of the former, my two girls are in the latter category. Please don't presume to speak for all of us when you have a minority view.

My children may well believe that twaw and tmam but they certainly do not believe that transwomen are female and transmen are male

Porn addled and children's entertainer

so the YouGov poll seems far more reliable, to say the least.

Which also asks the question in the same way, as I said. But I see you're off out now.

So clearly while many of the public will say a trans women is a woman, when asked to follow through the practical implicationsof that statement they do in fact see material differences between trans women and female people

Yes, remember 'not for relationship purposes' Robin who had been lecturing women that TWAW. Alas, Robin doesn't really think this either

Asking 'which is closest to your idea of what a woman is' is NOT the same thing as asking if transwomen are women - I've looked and they don't seem to ask that question.

They asked whether 'woman' meant adult human female or anyone who says they're a woman.

A transwoman is any male adult who says he's a woman, so they did ask that question. Or do you have a different definition of what a transwoman is?

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people. 10 million people - yet how many active 'gender criticals' are there? Probably less than three thousand, according to research.

What is an "active 'gender critical'"?

Who is opposing making things easier for trans people? We are concerned with protecting women's rights. How do you think this affects trans people?

Are women really expected to happily to share facilities with transwomen like the self-confessed "AGP porn addict male" who features in this thread? This incident in the pub demonstrates perfectly why we won't (can't) ever believe TWAW and I cannot understand why people are still thinking that we should.

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people

You seem to think that GC women need to outnumber the amount of people that spout 'TWAW' for anyone to take us seriously? It doesn't work like that.

Lawsuits will make them think twice. It wouldn't need to be thousands, all it will take is a few.

The woman who was sexually assaulted in women's prison because transgender rapists/sex offenders have been given the ''right'' to access vulnerable women, is taking new legal action for the harm that came to her due to the MoJ's desire to make 'things easier for trans people'. Women being sexually assaulted by trans people in prison has happened more than once. Every single one of those women could sue if they wanted to.

That kind of thing can't be ignored. If there's evidence that women and girls are being harmed, or being negatively impacted eg; avoiding rape crisis centres or women's refuges because they're not single sex, girls not drinking water at school/skipping school altogether when they get their periods so they don't have to share their toilets with males, then there will need to be a rethink and new solutions.

Making someone else's life easier shouldn't mean making the lives of women and girls harder.

Don’t know if others have posted this, but I just got a reply from Greene King. I emailed them asking if it was company policy to eject gender critical women for wearing t shirts or simply having gender critical beliefs. They said:

“We always strive for our pubs to be friendly and welcoming places for all and we have a very clear policy that we do not tolerate any form of discrimination or abuse from our customers or team members. As soon as we were made aware of this incident, we started a full investigation which includes interviewing all team members who were on duty that evening and reviewing CCTV footage. We are also aware of the involvement of the police and we will, of course, fully co-operate with them.

Please rest assured that once our investigation is concluded we will not hesitate to take any appropriate action that may be necessary.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us and please be assured that we are treating this matter with the urgency and seriousness it warrants.“

Looks like they are taking this seriously, at least.

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people.

"Easier for trans people" being euphemism for allowing 45-year old 20 stone men with dicks to share a changing room with 15 year old girls.

Let me make something crystal clear to you. I will fight to my dying breath to stop that happening. There are millions like me. Do you seriously think that, once people understand what is going on, that they will allow this to happen? That when parents understand that they are being asked to allow their daughters to share changing rooms with a fully intact male person, or that their elderly mum is going to be expected to receive intimate care from someone with a male body, that they are just going to quietly acquiesce?

Because women aren't going to put up with it, and neither are fathers with daughters. If you don't understand this, you are going to have one hell of a shock coming your way.

@RoyalCorgi

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people.

"Easier for trans people" being euphemism for allowing 45-year old 20 stone men with dicks to share a changing room with 15 year old girls.

Let me make something crystal clear to you. I will fight to my dying breath to stop that happening. There are millions like me. Do you seriously think that, once people understand what is going on, that they will allow this to happen? That when parents understand that they are being asked to allow their daughters to share changing rooms with a fully intact male person, or that their elderly mum is going to be expected to receive intimate care from someone with a male body, that they are just going to quietly acquiesce?

Because women aren't going to put up with it, and neither are fathers with daughters. If you don't understand this, you are going to have one hell of a shock coming your way.

Well said RoyalCorgi! 👍💚🤍💜

@WeeBisom

Don’t know if others have posted this, but I just got a reply from Greene King. I emailed them asking if it was company policy to eject gender critical women for wearing t shirts or simply having gender critical beliefs. They said:

“We always strive for our pubs to be friendly and welcoming places for all and we have a very clear policy that we do not tolerate any form of discrimination or abuse from our customers or team members. As soon as we were made aware of this incident, we started a full investigation which includes interviewing all team members who were on duty that evening and reviewing CCTV footage. We are also aware of the involvement of the police and we will, of course, fully co-operate with them.

Please rest assured that once our investigation is concluded we will not hesitate to take any appropriate action that may be necessary.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us and please be assured that we are treating this matter with the urgency and seriousness it warrants.“

Looks like they are taking this seriously, at least.

I was waiting for them to say they'd inform you of the outcome.