GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

Ok, Trans Women will never experience the miracle of a life inside them, the most intimate bond between mother and baby, if they want children they will have to adopt (I'm adopted btw - and there's a lot to it most people don't realise) and most mother's preference is for the baby to be a flesh and blood descendent, alongside other biological siblings, something a trans woman will never have. A privilege a cis woman will have

Privilege my fat arse. Burden more like for many women.

Also - it's not a 'privilege'. It's a simple biological function.

Well yes the existence of critical thinking is always hostile to those who lack the ability or inclination to do so.

I do wonder if the people who are happy to class themselves as privileged cis women and say we should open up women's spaces to (what they see as) vulnerable and needy males are getting some sort of subconscious comfort from feeling that they are privileged and powerful over this subset of males, a reversal of the usual dynamic.

That's an interesting theory.

You are so sure of your position, and you must understand that legislation needs definitions, so you either think there should be no sex based legislation or we need a new definition of woman
I am only a woman because of female biology, it is the only thing I have in common with every other woman and the reason I am not a man
What is your definition?

Unless we get an answer to this, I don't think there is much point indulging this tedious thread derailing.

Privileged compared to trans women. You can have children. You are less likely to lose your job as a woman than a transwoman. You won't face a fraction of the abuse and harassment that transwomen are getting. You are less likely to be assaulted. You have easier access to healthcare aimed at you than transwomen have. You are likely to earn more. You are treated as perfectly normal, not a problem, you are not regularly accused of being an autogynephile a danger to women, a pervert, just for existing. Those are all privileges, in comparison with transwomen.'

It's amusing how centering males, and their wants and needs and preferences, is so regularly punted to us on FWR and how our resistance results in a tiresome fact free wokescolding.

@RedDogsBeg

always has, you could be young woman, a black woman, etc

Nice bit of racism there @BilindaB, stating black women are a subset of women, what is the default woman setting that makes black women a subset?

This kind of racist shite is endemic in this ideology and you are happy to be part of that @BilindaB.

White women are a subset of women too. There is no default setting of woman. What colour skin do I have, do you know?

@PlanDeRaccordement

If the pub was being bigoted, they would have refused service right away. As I have had happen to me due to my race. You go in and suddenly, every table is reserved or your booking lost and you leave within 5mins of arriving. The manager said he recognised them the second they came in. They were still served and had a more than average length of 2.5hrs of eating and drinking. It was only after they were nicely asked to surrender their tables and the women refusing rudely that things got out of hand. Plus leaving stickers and leaflets in a business without permission is enough to get you asked to leave no matter what cause you are supporting.

This. I've ejected people from the café where I worked for vandalising the premises with stickers before. And it was a cause I agreed with. The only dodgy thing here is the establishment's staff using this as an excuse to virtue-signal but that's hardly the crime of the century.

BilindaB
What is your definition of woman?

I like wokescolding! It's perfect to describe that meaningless diatribe. FWIW the transitioned males in my organisation were promoted and everyone thinks they are 'stunning and brave'. Meanwhile, women do the shitwork. And I get the warm fuzzy gooeys every time I look at the statistics of women who are assaulted, raped, bashed and murdered by men knowing it could be so much worse. And of course, all those girls subject to FGM - I'm sure they are wallowing in their privilege!

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Ok, Trans Women will never experience the miracle of a life inside them, the most intimate bond between mother and baby, if they want children they will have to adopt (I'm adopted btw - and there's a lot to it most people don't realise) and most mother's preference is for the baby to be a flesh and blood descendent, alongside other biological siblings, something a trans woman will never have. A privilege a cis woman will have

Privilege my fat arse. Burden more like for many women.

Well quite. Before the advent of available birth control, many women were pregnant every year, with the dangers which go along with that. A quick walk around any graveyard will show how many women died in childbirth. There will still be many places where either birth control is unavailable or for various different societal reasons, discouraged. That's not even going into the huge burden upon the body from pregnancy and child bearing.

Comments like 'women can access better health care than transpeople' is astounding when you look at the lack of aftercare for birth injuries and the lack of knowledge of women's reproductive issues, just as a start!

Unless what is being referred by transpeople's health care is some TRA's horror that life saving breast cancer surgery is being prioritised over 'top surgery'. I'll repeat that - 'some TRA's horror that life saving breast cancer surgery is being prioritised over 'top surgery'. Strangely enough, I'm OK with that.

White women are a subset of women too. There is no default setting of woman. What colour skin do I have, do you know?

Are you actually this lacking in intelligence? You cannot have a subset of something if there is not a default, overarching primary set.

303,000women die in childbirth or complications of pregnancy every year . One every 2 minutes 830 every day

And that likely to be under reported

That’s a fact

Due to our biology

White women are a subset of women too. There is no default setting of woman

Skin colour is a descriptor, not an indicator of a sub set. As is height, age, nationality, hair colour, eye colour and so on. The definition of woman is adult human female, ie someone born with XX chromosomes. The exceptions are those born with a DSD who once they have been checked are still female.
Do you see - transwoman does not fall into this correct definition because to be a transwoman you first have to be male. And we all know sex cannot be changed. Transwoman is a descriptor of a male.

I feel privileged to see through the bogus claims of gender ideology.

That is true privilege.

Privileged compared to trans women. You can have children
Transwomen can also have children - look at Caitlyn Jenner.

You are less likely to lose your job as a woman than a transwoman
Evidence please.

You won't face a fraction of the abuse and harassment that transwomen are getting. You are less likely to be assaulted
Evidence please.

You have easier access to healthcare aimed at you than transwomen have
Utter rubbish as the NHS has been captured by gender ideology.

You are likely to earn more
Evidence please. *

You are treated as perfectly normal, not a problem, you are not regularly accused of being an autogynephile a danger to women, a pervert, just for existing. Those are all privileges, in comparison with transwomen
The vast majority of AGPs are male, although it is believed that there are some cases of female AGPs. It’s not an accusation, it’s a diagnosis.

The concern around danger is linked to self ID. Any man can, and indeed has, claimed to be trans in order to gain access to single sex services such as female prisons where they have gone on to assault females. Karen White is a prime example. This does not mean that all transwomen will assault females, but that some men will claim to be transwomen in order to do just that. If you can’t see that, then you’re just burying your head in the sand.
Many transwomen are also against self ID for this very reason. They don’t want to be lumped in with men who have dodgy motives. We know that. Try watching some of Maya Kaye’s videos. She has a great deal to say about transwomen - of which she is one.

@littlbrowndog

303,000women die in childbirth or complications of pregnancy every year . One every 2 minutes 830 every day

And that likely to be under reported

That’s a fact

Due to our biology

Last time I checked, no male ever died becoming a father! Now THAT’s male privilege.

You are treated as perfectly normal, not a problem

Women are treated as problems for

• speaking our truths
• speaking our minds
• speaking out
• speaking about things men don't want us to speak about
• speaking about ourselves and our needs
• speaking about our oppression
• speaking about our pain
• speaking about our anger
• speaking

Women are treated as problems for;

• Being where men don't want us to be
• Being in places men want to be
• Being present
• Being absent
• Being for ourselves
• Not always being there for others
• Being.

Gosh I hate the term Cis.

There is no such thing as a Cis woman. There are women and men who say they are women.
There is no such thing as a Cis man. There are men and women who say they are men.

You are less likely to lose your job as a woman than a transwoman
''Maternity leave discrimination means 54,000 women lose their jobs each year
Women returning to work after a child more likely to face discrimination than they were ten years ago, says Equality and Human Rights Commission report''
www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/24/maternity-leave-discrimination-54000-women-lose-jobs-each-year-ehrc-report

You won't face a fraction of the abuse and harassment that transwomen are getting. You are less likely to be assaulted
Trans people are the safest demographic.
“All of these large groups — blacks, poor whites, Latinos, men — have a murder rate that’s an order of magnitude higher than the transgender murder rate. That’s what I found,” Mr. Reilly, who teaches political science at the historically black college, told The Washington Times. “The transgender murder rate seems to be remarkably low.”"
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/8/transgender-homicide-rate-remarkably-low-despite-h/

Privileged compared to trans women. You can have children

Oh for goodness sake.

Are birds privileged compared to me because they can fly? Or do I need to get a grip and recognise that the thing is I'm not a bird, and as an adult, this is probably not the healthiest thing to get stuck on? And that birds don't owe me anything for having been born with a different genetic code to mine through no fault of their own and 'privilege' is a really silly word to stick on it?

I never thought of it that way. Transwomen can become parents without risking pregnancy complications, dying in childbirth or losing their job whilst on maternity leave.

That is true privilege, right there!

You are treated as perfectly normal, not a problem, you are not regularly accused of being an autogynephile a danger to women, a pervert, just for existing. Those are all privileges, in comparison with transwomen

Bollocks am I treated as perfectly normal! Every time I open my mouth to mention women being human, having biology, being a real thing and not an interesting mixed sex concept and needing single sex spaces I get called all kinds of things a hell of a lot worse than that, I'm definitely called a danger and threat, and sexual violence and death threats ensue.

I don't have the privilege to define myself and my own identity, to use my own choice of words or to have access to spaces or services to be included as I need to if it conflicts with the wishes of someone born male, to be prioritised and supported by very rich, government funded political lobbies, or to be homosexual, all through being born female.

The whole 'privilege' nonsense does not stand up in any way at all, it's just an excuse to justify oppressing women.

@BilindaB

Look, people trawling through Meb's twitter for things to report. To get her banned, as revenge. It's pathetic.

Anti semitism IS appalling. I find it utterly bizarre you can defend that. THAT is pathetic and that’s putting it mildly.

White women are a subset of women too.

The answer to 'what is a woman' is not 'a woman has sub-sets' or 'white women are a subset.'

Try again, Bilinda.

The question is not - 'name some subsets of women' - but 'what is a woman?'

I'm sure someone who can name the subsets of something can give a clear and easy definition of that something.