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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

999 replies

cariadlet · 22/08/2021 20:02

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

OP posts:
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Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2021 14:46

The article on Yahoo, written by Pink News (the PN in the top left corner is a bit of a giveaway) which repeatedly uses the phrase 'anti trans'?

With the fake reviews excluded, Doctors has a score on TripAdvisor of 4.5 out of 5 from 752 reviews. It's #72 of 1,771 listed restaurants in Edinburgh.

So?

PatsArrow · 24/08/2021 14:47

MargaritaPie yes she was doxxed....

Tweet an account now deleted of course but this was it. Each photo could be clicked abd enlarged with her full address.

Tweeter deleted if after a few hours claiming "Harressment from TERFS being hysterical over it"

Her BOYS live here. Wtf?

Also you say Marion was threatening to set her legal team on someone. That someone was an SNP (MP?) called Janice something who claimed that Marion had cussed a scene at a Wake in a restaurant a few months back, Marion gave Janice many hours to retract it, apologise or name the restaurant. She didn't, so she has started legal proceedings.

Enough is enough. People just think they can outright LIE and encourage violence to someone's door with no comeback. This shit has to stop.

PatsArrow · 24/08/2021 14:47

This reply has been deleted

This post contains an address, so we're taking it down now. www.mumsnet.com/i/netiquette Talk guidelines.]]

Gumbomambo · 24/08/2021 14:48

I saw the account just before she locked down and her sons address had been published.

yourhairiswinterfire · 24/08/2021 14:58

Has she?

Yes. But of course, it's the doxxer that is the 'real' victim here. They reckon it's okay because her details are apparently publicly available. I wonder why the doxxer was so keen to draw everyone's attention to the address of a woman who is being subjected to a misogynistic hate campaign? 🤔

she was talking about wanting to set her legal team on someone for "libelling" her on Twitter.

Excellent news. I hope she follows through with it. I wish more women were able to stand up to those that smear them.

What's that saying that the internet bullies love chanting...''Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences'', or something like that? Well here are the consequences. Libel isn't free speech and the courts take a dim view of it. Very expensive too, ask the transactivist that libelled Jean Hatchet, or Dr Jessen.

RedDogsBeg · 24/08/2021 15:05

The lengths you go to with your victim blaming and your need to destroy Marion Millar is reprehensible MargaritaPie, your obsession with her and determination to see her (metaphorically) hung, drawn and quatered is contemptible.

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2021 15:14

@PatsArrow. You need to delete that. Can you repost with the address details covered up?

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2021 15:15

Ignore me - thought that was the tweet with Marion's address Blush

Sorry @PatsArrow

ScreamingMeMe · 24/08/2021 15:17

@RedDogsBeg

The lengths you go to with your victim blaming and your need to destroy Marion Millar is reprehensible MargaritaPie, your obsession with her and determination to see her (metaphorically) hung, drawn and quatered is contemptible.
Totally agree.

You digust me @MargaritaPie

But do carry on showing yourself, and the TRA movement, up. We see you, and others will too.

LazyViper · 24/08/2021 15:20

Amazing to read someone arguing in all seriousness that GC people are a tiny minority and Britain is otherwise made up of TRA ideology supporters.

Blinda, I don’t know how to break it to you, but hardly anyone on earth thinks males with intact bodies should be allowed in women’s single sex spaces. Or sports. Or prisons. Or wards. Hardly anyone.

Please, do go out and take a large sample of ordinary people’s views on the question. Make sure you phrase it correctly. Not the largely irrelevant ‘Should we be kind to dysphoric people and honour their pronoun choice?’, but instead the real issue GC people are campaigning about: ‘95% of transwomen retain their male genitalia and have no intention of seeking surgery. Should these people be allowed to use women’s single sex spaces?’

I am very sure indeed that an overwhelming majority will reply ‘What? Of course not.’ Please do go ahead and prove me wrong.

WouldBeGood · 24/08/2021 15:22

Maybe I’m being thick, so sorry, but do some people keep their penis, and get breasts?

LazyViper · 24/08/2021 15:25

I believe breast tissue growth is a side effect of taking cross-sex hormones @WouldBeGood

BatmansBat · 24/08/2021 15:27

do some people keep their penis and get breast?

I think this (keep penis, get breasts) is the majority of transwomen actually.

Some also do nothing, they just declare that they are women.

I think about 98% keep their penises.

WouldBeGood · 24/08/2021 15:29

Yes, I knew about the do nothing ones, the breasts and penis thing is new to me.

Thanks for answering - trying to keep abreast (sorry😳) of all this

MargaritaPie · 24/08/2021 15:32

PatsArrow, thanks for clarifying but the address can almost be made out from that image btw.

PatsArrow · 24/08/2021 15:38

Ok thanks. I thought it was too blurred. It seems to have gone so someone must have reported.

cariadlet · 24/08/2021 15:39

@WouldBeGood Judging from the tweets I've seen from transwomen with photos of them flashing their fake boobs and telling people they don't like to suck their "lady dick", I'd say the answer to that is yes.

OP posts:
PatsArrow · 24/08/2021 15:41

Forgot to add apologies.

WouldBeGood · 24/08/2021 15:44

This has all been most educational. And I thought i was relatively aware. It’s all extremely disturbing.

I’m not sure how this really relates to gender: it seems more like a sexual thing, some of it.

It’s good to keep learning!

CharlieParley · 24/08/2021 15:46

This really tickles me this idea that Twitter tells us anything about what the majority of UK residents think.

Please forgive me the derail, but this belief is one of the issues we have in this debate - everyone on Twitter agrees with X, therefore X is what everyone thinks.

The latest stats on UK Twitter show that 25 out of a 100 people use Twitter and of those 25 only 10 are female.

So for starters, no more than one in five women use the platform.

Of course, the stats are based on counting accounts. Aside from bot accounts (computers tweeting programmed responses), troll or sock puppet accounts (fake accounts intended to stir up things) and farm accounts (where people are paid to tweet from many different accounts for various reasons, including commercial interests and political lobbying), very many people have more than one account. Including me.

There's often no overlap between the accounts - I had two for different aspects of my life. Like many others, my accounts are dormant. (Ever since I was suspended for pointing out that it was rather self-serving for males to declare that the female sex class cannot be oppressed by the male sex class because sex doesn't exist.)

That was two-and-a-half years ago. Both accounts still exist though. As do hundreds of thousands of other dormant accounts. Many more accounts tweet only rarely.

So the number of unique users who are active on Twitter is probably closer to 1 in 100 of people in the UK and therefore only 1 in 50 women. But I'm amused and feeling generous, so let's go with 1 in 5 women using the platform.

That's still 6.6 million accounts. But BilindaB has determined that only two to three thousand of them could possibly oppose the doctrine of gender identity.

I'd love to know how.

Anyway, the demographics tells us that the 15 to 24 age bracket is overrepresented. They represent 12% of the population but a third of Twitter users. Educated people are also overrepresented. People without qualifications are hugely underrepresented. People with higher incomes are also overrepresented. Working class people are underrepresented. Politically engaged people are overrepresented. People with liberal views are overrepresented.

And so on. Twitter users are not representative of the wider population.

Much more representative are polls done over the last few years which consistently showed that only 1 in 5 people support GRA reform, and in polls where the meaning and consequences of the proposed changes are pointed out (fully intact males using female-only provisions) a majority of men and women reject the notion. Even the Pink News poll showed the same results.

As for BilindaB's claim that follower numbers of grassroots women's rights groups can be discounted as they're probably paid-for fake followers, this is complete nonsense. These groups are funded by thousands of small donations. They publish their accounts. There's no money in the budget for buying followers or likes.

However, you don't have to trust follower numbers alone. A good indicator for genuine engagement are likes, retweet and comments.

BBC Breaking News has the most followers on UK Twitter with 48 million. Their highest engagement number recently was 1 in 2,000. Their average is about 1 in 10,000. But that is an account that only broadcasts.

From my marketing work, I would expect about 1 in 100 followers to interact with an account on any given tweet. (That's an average open-rate for emails as well and politicians as well as political researchers and admins tell us that in their view 1 letter represents at least 100 constituents with the same issue.)

So 1 in 100 then.

Take For Women Scotland's Twitteraccount. Their proportional engagement numbers are much better than those of BBC Breaking News, but that's because they don't just broadcast to Twitter users, they engage with them.

They have 20,000 followers and their best response rate is about 1 in 20. Their average response rate is around 1 in 200. What this means is that their follower numbers are not inflated by accounts that aren't genuine.

So applying this knowledge and taking BelindaB's figures at face value, 2,000 accounts actively engaging on Twitter to oppose the doctrine of gender identity represents about 200,000 users on Twitter who also oppose the doctrine of gender identity. That number doesn't really translate to real life, because believers in the doctrine are overrepresented on Twitter, but at the very least we can speculate that in real life there are more than 200,000 women in the UK who know about and oppose the doctrine of gender identity.

Of course, the judge in the Maya Forstater ruling already confirmed what we know - believing that sex is binary and immutable is a view held by the majority of the people. And if Twitter has given someone the impression that the majority of UK residents think people can change sex and TWAW, then Twitter has given them the wrong impression.

Again, sorry for the derail.

nauticant · 24/08/2021 15:49

Yes, I knew about the do nothing ones, the breasts and penis thing is new to me.

The breasts are there to generate arousal from self-regard and the penis is there to complete the arousal episode. Just like any other woman.

Leafstamp · 24/08/2021 15:55

For those asking about males who are transgender keeping their penises, this is useful reading, which references various statistics and meta-analysis:

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Waitwhat23 · 24/08/2021 15:56

@CharlieParley promise us that you will continue to use your powers for good? Grin fantastic post

PatsArrow · 24/08/2021 15:58

Brilliant Post Charley Parley. So interesting!

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 24/08/2021 15:58

@RedDogsBeg

The lengths you go to with your victim blaming and your need to destroy Marion Millar is reprehensible MargaritaPie, your obsession with her and determination to see her (metaphorically) hung, drawn and quatered is contemptible.
Does seem a bit obsessive

I quite like the language used

‘I happened to…’ and ‘I stumbled upon…’

Of course you did 😀

And ‘wanting to set her legal team..’ incredibly biased