Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality

[secular111]

Or Homophobia as we know it.

The belief that the trans-activists would stop by just attacking lesbians turns out to have been a miscalculation; gay men are a target now, and the community is only just starting to wake-up to the threat it is facing.

Woke Homophobia

Well, guess what. Too bad. You don't get to have that. You don't get to completely exclude trans women. Because we will not condone anti-trans discrimination.

I don't understand that there are people who think that this kind of bullshit is acceptable. That some people think it's unreasonable to exclude men in some circumstances- that it is 'anti-trans' to say that in some situations we need to segregate due to biological sex. There is nothing discriminatory about this and no decent man would want to impose their presence on women in these circumstances anyway.

@OnlyTheLangOfTheTitberg

I would not be sexually attracted to a lesbian or transman because I am attracted to men and enjoy the sensations of sex with a man with a penis (and a dildo or any other kind of toy is NOT the same).

I would not be sexually attracted to a transwoman because I find feminine men in women’s clothing unattractive. Similarly I would not be attracted to a straight man who had a fetish for wearing women’s clothes or lingerie.

I would not be attracted to anyone whose grasp of reality is flimsy or non-existent and who would require me to lie on a daily basis for fear of precipitating some kind of MH or identity crisis if I let slip the truth.

I am entitled to hold all of those views. No one else has a right to my attention, my love, my body, my vagina. Choosing who to date or have sex with is, by definition, discriminatory. But it is not anything-phobic.

This!

I am a straight adult human female. Why is it ok for me to say 'I only want to sleep with biological men, who identify as and present themselves as men' but it's not ok for a gay man (or a lesbian, with a biological female obvs) to say the same thing? Am I homophobic simply by stating my own sexual preference? No? Thought not.

This world makes me bloody despair sometimes. You can sleep with whoever you damn well like! I don't want to sleep with other women. Doesn't mean I hate lesbians, or am homophobic! I'm just not attracted to them. So why can't a lesbian say 'I don't want to sleep with someone who has a penis' regardless of how they identify?

Argh. What utter nonsense this is.

@FloralBunting
"Except you can't stop female people going underground to escape male colonisation, intrusion and oppression being forced upon them."

Cool. I don't care.

That said, the entirety of British upper-class punditry is not exactly what I would call "going underground".

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Well, guess what. Too bad. You don't get to have that. You don't get to completely exclude trans women. Because we will not condone anti-trans discrimination.

I don't understand that there are people who think that this kind of bullshit is acceptable. That some people think it's unreasonable to exclude men in some circumstances- that it is 'anti-trans' to say that in some situations we need to segregate due to biological sex. There is nothing discriminatory about this and no decent man would want to impose their presence on women in these circumstances anyway.

Aargh first bit was meant to be bold

BluebirdsSong

Not exactly, but I don't believe sexuality is strictly defined by genitals, gametes, or chromosomes either.

Could you answer these questions please?

10a) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through exploration of gender theory and re-framing of her perceptions of what it means to be a man or woman, would this be an appropriate response?

10b) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through damaging her opportunities to access employment, housing, and social support networks as a response to non-compliance, would this be an appropriate response?

10c) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through re-education at a dedicated facility, would this be an appropriate response?

10d) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through aversion therapy — inducing, for example, intense self-loathing and worthlessness in response to undesirable feelings– would this be an appropriate response?

10e) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through electroshock therapy, would this be an appropriate response?

10f) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was throughinternment followed by six months of brothel work followed by murder, would this be an appropriate response?

10g) if not, why not?

Source: apacificisland.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/unanswered-unanswerable-alt-title-agenda/

How would being "sex attracted" exclude trans people from bisexuality?

I think when a person makes such a hugely fundamental change to themselves that affects their outlook on the world and how people see them then they have to accept that people will view them differently and that may include finding them less attractive.

@BluebirdsSong you can stop attempting to bully the lesbian now, champ.

Answer the questions Purgatory has posed. You'll get no more jollies from me.

I think when a person makes such a hugely fundamental change to themselves that their outlook on the world and how people see them then they have to accept that people will view them differently and that may include finding them less attractive.

I agree with this. I think it must be difficult for some, including Bluebird, to accept that it massively limits the number of people who would want to date them. It's just the reality of it though.

Well, guess what. Too bad. You don't get to have that. You don't get to completely exclude trans women. Because we will not condone anti-trans discrimination.

Yes we do, and the Law of the land allows it no matter how much you try to make people believe otherwise. We will not condone homophobia, coercion or abuse or discrimination against homosexuals or women - both of which are covered under the protected characteristics of the Equality Act.

Deal with it.

Take your own advice.

You won't relent on your stances, so I do not see why I am under any obligation to.

No we won't relent on our stances as they are protected by the Law of the land, and that means you are obliged to act within it or feel the weight of it. Up to you.

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]BluebirdsSong

Not exactly, but I don't believe sexuality is strictly defined by genitals, gametes, or chromosomes either.

Could you answer these questions please?

10a) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through exploration of gender theory and re-framing of her perceptions of what it means to be a man or woman, would this be an appropriate response?

10b) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through damaging her opportunities to access employment, housing, and social support networks as a response to non-compliance, would this be an appropriate response?

10c) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through re-education at a dedicated facility, would this be an appropriate response?

10d) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through aversion therapy — inducing, for example, intense self-loathing and worthlessness in response to undesirable feelings– would this be an appropriate response?

10e) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was through electroshock therapy, would this be an appropriate response?

10f) if the only way to eradicate genital preference in a woman was throughinternment followed by six months of brothel work followed by murder, would this be an appropriate response?

10g) if not, why not?

Source: apacificisland.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/unanswered-unanswerable-alt-title-agenda/[/quote]
I don't think we need to "eradicate genital preference", it's okay to have preferences.

What I want to put an end to is the notion that genitals define whether one is a "real" man/woman or that they should are inherently excluded from gay/lesbian sexuality.

What I want to put an end to is framing genital preference as sexuality.

@RedDogsBeg

Well, guess what. Too bad. You don't get to have that. You don't get to completely exclude trans women. Because we will not condone anti-trans discrimination.

Yes we do, and the Law of the land allows it no matter how much you try to make people believe otherwise. We will not condone homophobia, coercion or abuse or discrimination against homosexuals or women - both of which are covered under the protected characteristics of the Equality Act.

Deal with it.

Take your own advice.

You won't relent on your stances, so I do not see why I am under any obligation to.

No we won't relent on our stances as they are protected by the Law of the land, and that means you are obliged to act within it or feel the weight of it. Up to you.

We can and will change the Law of the Land.

We can and will change the Law of the Land.

Good luck with that. There's this little thing called democracy that might get in your way. Totalitarian fiat is not yet the way things are done in this country.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I think when a person makes such a hugely fundamental change to themselves that their outlook on the world and how people see them then they have to accept that people will view them differently and that may include finding them less attractive.

I agree with this. I think it must be difficult for some, including Bluebird, to accept that it massively limits the number of people who would want to date them. It's just the reality of it though.

So in other words, transition can change other people's attraction to you. Interesting.

By the same logic, why can't transitioning make a trans woman more attractive to lesbians?

How would being "sex attracted" exclude trans people from bisexuality?

If someone hates their own sex so much they completely reject it, why should anyone else be attracted to it? With an added demand of “accept me as being a member of the opposite sex” when they demonstrably aren’t and can never be so. It’s not leaving much for most bisexuals to be attracted to, is it?

Genital preference = Sexual Orientation

It is a protected characteristic.

It is not transphobic.

You will NEVER EVER end Sexual orientation.

You may end up raping unwilling women or forcing conversion therapy. But their Sexual orientation remains unchanged.

Because it is based on SEX.

Because transitioning isn’t magic?

Actually makes me feel sick that there are "humans" whose sense of entitlement leads them to believe that nobody else has any rights.

Show the whole world who you are.

Please.

Do it.

We can and will change the Law of the Land.

No, you won't.

and as it is the Law of the Land how about you accept it, abide by it and stop bullying, lying, being abusive and coercive? How about you quit with your homophobia?

What I want to put an end to is framing genital preference as sexuality.

It's sex that sexuality is based on, you know that unchangeable, immutable aspect of humans. Are you really so lacking in intelligence that you cannot understand this?

By the same logic, why can't transitioning make a trans woman more attractive to lesbians?

Oh dear. You're so entrenched or shameless in your homophobia that you really think that works as a "gotcha" don't you? Sadly, this is what happens when bigotry and a sense of entitlement to women's bodies takes over your thinking (I note you're not interested in trans mens' access to male bodies).

Oh Bluebird You've been sold a lie and you've swallowed it completely.

Sexuality is about sex and that usually involves genitals, you can berate women all you like but it won't change that. Infact its more likely to turn them off.

Lesbians are not attracted to males because they are male, Its not rocket science.

What I want to put an end to is framing genital preference as sexuality.

Why? In an effort to undermine discrimination law? Abuse lesbians? What?

@NecessaryScene

What I want to put an end to is framing genital preference as sexuality.

Why? In an effort to undermine discrimination law? Abuse lesbians? What?

In an effort to oppose the stigma and discrimination against transgender people. I do not see how trans-inclusive definitions "undermine discrimination law".

By the same logic, why can't transitioning make a trans woman more attractive to lesbians?

Because lesbians are biological women who are attracted to other biological women. There. Simple.

And honestly, the vast majority of people are not attracted to people who try to deny biological reality and think it is possible to 'live' as the opposite sex to the sex they are born.