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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality

546 replies

secular111 · 07/08/2021 19:48

Or Homophobia as we know it.

The belief that the trans-activists would stop by just attacking lesbians turns out to have been a miscalculation; gay men are a target now, and the community is only just starting to wake-up to the threat it is facing.

Woke Homophobia

OP posts:
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15
GromblesofGrimbledon · 08/08/2021 20:44

@BluebirdsLament

Hello!

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting your first two alter egos.

Trans people can date anyone who wants to date them. But the words gay and lesbian mean same sex attracted.

There's not a big discussion to be had. Trans people can date from the pool of people who want to date them. That might be a smaller pool than had they not decided to transition, but everyone has their lot in life. You can't simply redefine the meaning of words and make it so. People will date and sleep with whomever they are attracted to.

Stamp your feet about definitions if you like but gay means same sex attracted men and lesbian means same sex attracted.

Chickenyhead · 08/08/2021 20:45

@GromblesofGrimbledon banned again, waiting for #4

Jorrris · 08/08/2021 20:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

RedDogsBeg · 08/08/2021 20:46

Who is this we?

Methinks the poster doth protest too much, they very much do care about being correctly called homophobic and misogynistic, it's hardly a good look for them and their ideology is it?

GromblesofGrimbledon · 08/08/2021 20:47

[quote Chickenyhead]@GromblesofGrimbledon banned again, waiting for #4[/quote]

I've got time.

I'll be mother.

☕️ 🫖

And biscuits a-plenty.

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 20:49

I made a joke about the royal 'we' earlier and Queen Victoria. She didn't believe there were such things as lesbians either. Grin

TalkingOutYerArse · 08/08/2021 20:55

OP: Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality (by TRAs).

OnGLUEbird: Proves it (also a TRA).

Bon voyage Grin

GromblesofGrimbledon · 08/08/2021 20:56

@BluebirdsLament

I'll leave this for when you return. Here's what gay men have to say about transmen in their spaces. Funnily enough, they're not keen. And they're definitely not as polite about it as we are.

Enjoy.

www.datalounge.com/thread/22392276-trans-man-kicked-out-of-london-gay-sauna-for-not-having-a-penis

Datun · 08/08/2021 21:00

Honestly some men just have to accept that women don't want to shag them.

Sophoclesthefox · 08/08/2021 21:25

@TalkingOutYerArse

OP: Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality (by TRAs).

OnGLUEbird: Proves it (also a TRA).

Bon voyage Grin

You’re right.

The thread topic turned into a demonstration in real time.

Amazing.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 08/08/2021 21:38

Slightly tangential, bit do you remember when the Terrance Higgins Trust (who I have been donating to for years) decided they couldn't lower themselves to promoting HIV awareness in Boyz' magazine?

extract

We should be publishingBoyzthis week. It was going to be our National HIV Testing Week issue as this year’s campaign starts on Monday (1 February). Each year we have devoted an edition ofBoyz, the gay men’s lifestyle and health magazine, to this important campaign, funded by the government through Public Health England, and commissioned annually since 2012 from the Terrence Higgins Trust (THT).

This month’s cover was earmarked for the THT. It booked a double-page advert, and the front cover and inside editorial was agreed. But then, out of the blue, THT advised there had been a change of plan and that it wouldn’t be advertising inBoyz. The UK’s biggest HIV and AIDS charity was for the first time not promoting National HIV Testing Week to the 55,000-strong readership of the longest-running gay men’s magazine in the country, even though many of those readers, especially younger gay men, remain in a high-risk group. We were then told that the charity may be in touch in April regarding running a piece about its new transgender sexual-health resources.

The THT’s decision came six weeks after we had invited our followers on Twitter to watch a webinar by the LGB Alliance, a group that believes in biological sex rather than gender-based public policy. We were clear that people might not agree with the LGB Alliance, but for the purposes of community debate, why not hear it out?

A Twitterstorm erupted and the THT joined with the National AIDS Trust to condemn us. THT tweeted: ‘It is unacceptable to promote an organisation that questions trans equality. We are disappointed and deeply saddened by @BoyzMagazine.’ Later a senior executive at THT wrote to me describing the LGB Alliance as ‘extremely toxic’ and its position on trans issues as ‘quite appalling’.

The decision to punishBoyzby not running National HIV Testing Week messages to our gay male readership after a partnership lasting over a decade is unfair, and regrettably political. An HIV charity – whose recently filed accounts show that last year it received £6million from the public purse, made a loss and still paid its CEO a six-figure salary – shouldn’t pitch one community against another.

Trans men and trans women rightly deserve and need sexual-health information from the THT and others, but it can’t be right that gay men’s health is put in jeopardy because a publicly funded charity chooses to start policing not only what views gay men might have, but also whether they are entitled to inform their views in the first place.

I have spoken to trans people who are appalled. They understand the importance of HIV-prevention messages being at the heart ofBoyz. Some lived as gay men before transitioning and emphasise how important theBoyzsafer-sex messaging had been to them, and how they were helped by our editorials on testing and going on to treatment. And they knowBoyzis not transphobic. We ran a full-page editorial feature four weeks before the Twitter furore on the new NHS Gender Dysphoria Service at London’s56 Dean Streetclinic.

Maybe it’s because I’m HIV positive myself that this decision seems especially wrong. I was diagnosed in 1994, two years before successful treatment arrived. In 1996, I was in hospital for three weeks with AIDS-defining PCP pneumonia. HIV testing remains so important, especially in these times ofCovid, for men who have had sex with men in the past but who have not yet been tested.

There are believed to be around 7,500 people in the UK currently living with HIV who are undiagnosed. Gay men who don’t know they have HIV are very vulnerable tocoronavirusbecause of their weakened immune systems. This is why National HIV Testing Week is especially important this year. Of course there are other ways to reach gay men, but forBoyzand our writers to be punished by a publicly funded body for the crime of encouraging people merely to enter a debate on transgender issues is a really scary point for our community, and our society.

Within a day or so of the Twitterstorm, the chief executive of the THT tweeted thatBoyzshould apologise, and we did. But by then cancelling its advertising, THT ensured that our National HIV Testing Week issue will not see the light of day (even online). What was the point of theBoyzapology if our critics won’t accept it?

It seems the leadership of the Terrence Higgins Trust considers itself to be so ‘on the right side of history’ that it is prepared to abdicate its duty to provide HIV-prevention information to gay men in order to look good in the eyes of so-called ‘progressives’.

Our readers may not forgive it for policing their thoughts. The Department of Health and Public Health England certainly shouldn’t.

From here: www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/29/the-witch-hunting-of-boyz-magazine/

Bolding is mine.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 08/08/2021 21:44

@Datun

Honestly some men just have to accept that women don't want to shag them.
it does seem a struggle for some to deal with dunnit?
Pommie69 · 08/08/2021 22:14

Sexual orientation ONE element of "sexuality" - the reason we are in this mess is because we accepted language that was NOT clear.

Pommie69 · 08/08/2021 22:15

Petition @UKParliament to record bio-SEX of all #Rapists &sexual/violent offenders approaching 10,000 necessary to trigger @Govuk response and well on the way to 100,000 to trigger a debate on the floor of @HouseofCommons thanks to @MBMpolicy petition in @ScotParl.

WHO wants to do something POSITIVE against this madness?

Then SIGN this petition and TELL EVERYBODY, and keep telling them until 7 Jan 2022.

Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality
Pommie69 · 08/08/2021 22:19

Petition @UKParliament to record bio-SEX of all #Rapists &sexual/violent offenders approaching 10,000 necessary to trigger @Govuk response and well on the way to 100,000 to trigger a debate on the floor of @HouseofCommons thanks to @MBMpolicy petition in @ScotParl petition.parliament.uk/petitions/590123

Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality
DdraigGoch · 08/08/2021 22:24

That's pretty grim. Looks like our teen visitor is misinformed on this one.
Teenagers usually think that they know it all. They seldom do.

StartSelect · 08/08/2021 23:29

As a lesbian, anyone who has or has ever had a penis cannot be a lesbian. I would rather be celibate until the day I die than have sex with a trans women, they are male and I’m same sex attracted. Lesbians are sick of this shit, hopefully gay men will now start to back us.

GrubbyGirl · 09/08/2021 05:19

Good job, blue. You peaked me.

Not sure that was the result you were after though..

FindTheTruth · 09/08/2021 07:14

Artichokeleaves

It's going to be necessary to see if the EqA10 works in court to protect all protected characteristics and if hate speech is something worried about for all nine.

Chapter 12 Trans People section in the Equal Treatment Bench Book(ETBB) - a document issued by the judicial college, responsible for training judges, is a problem. For example, it says “a man who was legally assigned as female at birth but who acquires a new legal gender as a teenager may identify as gay (oriented towards other men) or straight (heterosexual), or bisexual.”. So how does EqA10 SEX and SEXual orientation PCs get applied? Like PP upthread said, they need new words, not ‘gay’ and ‘lesbian’. People say the ETBB pulls the rug from under EqA10, impacting women's cases like Maya’s, Maria’s and Allisons. It was written/ contributed to by trans lobby groups (who are still undisclosed even after FOIs) and Trans Judge Victoria McCloud, The Queen's Bench Master.

Threads
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4291072-Policy-Exchange-Why-the-Equal-Treatment-Bench-Books-needs-urgent-revision

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4235549-Transgender-campaigners-have-too-much-say-over-expanding-hate-crime-laws-says-top-judge

ErrolTheDragon · 09/08/2021 08:34

The fact that according to the ETBB “a man who was legally assigned as female at birth but who acquires a new legal gender as a teenager may identify as gay (oriented towards other men) or straight (heterosexual), or bisexual.”. does not say that a potential partner (or anyone else) has to actually believe that, does it?

And then there is the fact that this applies to people (who the ETBB describes first and foremost as 'men' ) who have acquired a new 'legal gender'. Most TW in the U.K. haven't. The EA does still offer them protection under the 'gender reassignment' characteristic - to not be discriminated against on that basis, relative to people of their sex and orientation.

Sporadica · 09/08/2021 08:35

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Artichokeleaves
"its about the right of female people to have a class of their own, to have spaces and activities where male people are not present"

Well, guess what. Too bad. You don't get to have that. You don't get to completely exclude trans women. Because we will not condone anti-trans discrimination.

Deal with it.

You won't relent on your stances, so I do not see why I am under any obligation to.[/quote]
In the UK, they absolutely do "get to have that". It's the law. Under all of the systems that operate in the UK. Educate yourself.

I think I'm wasting my time, but do you understand why same-sex facilities emerged in the first place? Do you have a clue why people might say it's wrong to remove rights that people have fought for, demonstrated the need for, and won without asking the people impacted?

I don't like to think this about anyone, bluebirdssong, but I am beginning to suspect that you are a bigot.

Deal with that.

Jorrris · 09/08/2021 08:40

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FindTheTruth · 09/08/2021 08:42

re ETBB does not say that a potential partner (or anyone else) has to actually believe that, does it?

not sure Errol INAL but I'd love some legal folk to break it down on the Why-the-Equal-Treatment-Bench-Books-needs-urgent-revision tread

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/08/2021 09:25

I think he's hopped off over the White Cliffs of Dover by now, hasn't he?

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