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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Deleted/censorship on mumsnet now!

777 replies

HermioneKipper · 06/08/2021 10:34

My thread asking about transwomen/transitioning/penises has been deleted.

Why are we not allowed to discuss this? It’s a genuine question and extremely relevant to the debate about transwomen entering female spaces.

There was no abuse of trans people that I could see aside from a few people attempting to derail by saying that they couldn’t see why women might be concerned about having to share their space!

This isn’t right

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
CardinalLolzy · 08/08/2021 14:26

Looking at it again, it seems it might require some sort of physical/medical intervention to be included - as it excludes 'self-id' (or does this mean only people without a gender dysphoria diagnosis?) which I would not be happy with.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:27

@RedDogsBeg

What, because I oppose you saying that exact thing about trans peoole?

You've made your homophobic views crystal clear on this and other threads BluebirdsSong, they are there for everyone to read.

Tell me, exactly what homophobic views I hold?

Gonna bet you'll get nothing except "you believe trans people should be included in homosexuality", and claim that this is in and of itself homophobic.

But you won't ever see me attacking the very concept of men being free to love men, and women being free to love women. You'll only see me challenging your ideas of who that should exclude.

Which is why I do not give a shit about your idea of what constitutes homophobia.

Artichokeleaves · 08/08/2021 14:33

You'll only see me challenging your ideas of who that should exclude.

And yet you're fine with excluding many female people from any provision.

You're in no position to be self righteous about inclusion. You're arguing here that exclusion is a fitting punishment for any female who will not place the needs of a male above her own.

While weaponising other people's oppression to try and give that view point some kind of justification.

It's a bit.... grubby really.

RedDogsBeg · 08/08/2021 14:33

Which is why I do not give a shit about your idea of what constitutes homophobia.

I, likewise, do not give a shit about your idea of what constitutes transphobia. You have demonstrated over and over again how deeply homophobic and misogynistic you are I give not a flying fuck what you think of me or call me, I don't rate the opinion of anyone so deeply prejudiced and bigoted as you.

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 14:33

Ah, the old 'Sure, you can be a lesbian, it's a free country. But do you have to announce it?'

What a funny little old-fashioned homphobic thing to say.

Deliriumoftheendless · 08/08/2021 14:38

So entrenched in racism, homophobia and misogyny they can’t even see it in themselves.

But that’s ok. Because everyone else can.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:41

@Artichokeleaves

You'll only see me challenging your ideas of who that should exclude.

And yet you're fine with excluding many female people from any provision.

You're in no position to be self righteous about inclusion. You're arguing here that exclusion is a fitting punishment for any female who will not place the needs of a male above her own.

While weaponising other people's oppression to try and give that view point some kind of justification.

It's a bit.... grubby really.

I'm perfectly fine with shunning and deplatforming bigots regardless of sex.
Deliriumoftheendless · 08/08/2021 14:43

Women who will not put men’s needs above their own equals bigotry?

At least you’re proud of being an MRA.

GCAcademic · 08/08/2021 14:43

But you won't ever see me attacking the very concept of men being free to love men, and women being free to love women. You'll only see me challenging your ideas of who that should exclude.

So you don't think that people should be allowed to define their own sexuality, then. And it's you that gets to decide which category of person they should be willing to sleep with. Sounds a bit rapey to me

Jorrris · 08/08/2021 14:45

I'm perfectly fine with shunning and deplatforming bigots regardless of sex.

Baby MRA. Bless.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:45

@FloralBunting

Ah, the old 'Sure, you can be a lesbian, it's a free country. But do you have to announce it?'

What a funny little old-fashioned homphobic thing to say.

You're free to announce you're a lesbian, we have no issue whatsoever with that.

And you're free to announce you exclude trans women, but be ready to get criticised for the transphobia inherent to that statement.

Jorrris · 08/08/2021 14:46

Sounds a bit rapey to me

Very much so.

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 14:46

@GCAcademic

But you won't ever see me attacking the very concept of men being free to love men, and women being free to love women. You'll only see me challenging your ideas of who that should exclude.

So you don't think that people should be allowed to define their own sexuality, then. And it's you that gets to decide which category of person they should be willing to sleep with. Sounds a bit rapey to me

Yes, telling lesbians they can't exclude men is... oh, what's the word... it keeps coming up, and I can't recall. Tip of my tongue. Homophone... Trombone... Creep... not sure.
Helleofabore · 08/08/2021 14:47

we have no issue whatsoever with that.

Who the fuck do you think you are?

CardinalLolzy · 08/08/2021 14:47

Is that Bunbury coming up the driveway?

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:48

@Jorrris

Sounds a bit rapey to me

Very much so.

No, criticizing someone for transphobia is not LITeRaLly RaPE.
Jorrris · 08/08/2021 14:49

Ahh, the teen text has arrived.

FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 14:49

You're free to announce you're a lesbian, we have no issue whatsoever with that.

Don't need your permission, pal. Also 'we'? Who are you dear, Queen Victoria?

And you're free to announce you exclude trans women, but be ready to get criticised for the transphobia inherent to that statement.

Being called names by homophobes is all the rage, innit? I'm used to being verbally and physically abused for being a lesbian by those who consider themselves righteous. Did hope that shit might be fading, but I am more than ready to fight it all over again.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:49

@FloralBunting
Trans women aren't men, and it is transphobic to call trans women men.

R0wantrees · 08/08/2021 14:50

@HermioneKipper

My thread asking about transwomen/transitioning/penises has been deleted.

Why are we not allowed to discuss this? It’s a genuine question and extremely relevant to the debate about transwomen entering female spaces.

There was no abuse of trans people that I could see aside from a few people attempting to derail by saying that they couldn’t see why women might be concerned about having to share their space!

This isn’t right

A reminder of the OP's post and question.
FloralBunting · 08/08/2021 14:50

[quote BluebirdsSong]@FloralBunting
Trans women aren't men, and it is transphobic to call trans women men.[/quote]
Homophobia is something you can walk away from, you know.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 08/08/2021 14:52

Let's talk about statistics.

Did you know that the year that the transwoman Lauren Jeska was convicted of theattempted murderofthe man investigating Jeska's eligibility to compete as a woman, Jeska was recorded as a woman for this crime.

As a result of Jeska's conviction being counted under the female heading in the stats, the number of women convicted for attempted murder that year increased by 20%. That's how small numbers work.

And now, let's talk more about statistics.

99% of sexual offenders are male.
88% of sexually offended against are female.

extract

Many people are surprised to discover that despite an approximately 50:50 female-to-male in the total population, less than 5% of the total prison population is female. The 3.9% figure is an all-time low following the release of the least dangerous prisoners in the wake of the UK Covid-19 lockdown on 23 March 2020. In fact, this is a pattern repeated globally: the female prison population is always a small fraction of the total prison population, with this less than 5% figure consistent across settled western democracies such as western countries of the European Union and the U.S. and countries like Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

This difference between female and male criminal offending is even more stark when it comes to prisoners serving sentences for one or more sexual offences. In fact, at no point in the two decades since 2001 has the percentage of male sexual offenders dropped below 99%. This stark sex differential in sexual offender is the same in the U.S. and other comparable countries, notably Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the Republic of Ireland and the Nordic five (made up of Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland).

Continues: www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-sexual-offending-context-is-all/

So do you really think that in absolute numbers, the number of female sexual offenders will be greater than the number of transwomen? In 2018-2019, the entire female prisoner population in England and Wales totalled 2,638!

The male population totalled 69,546 over the same timeframe. And let me let you into a secret. According to Ministry of Justice surveys, 1 in 50 of the male prison population now self-ids as trans. 2% of 69,546 is... 1,391 (rounded to whole numbers).

Which presents you with a dilemma here. Either these prisoners are lying about being trans, possibly to get moved to the lower security women's prisons, or they're not. I think they're lying. Maybe you will decide they are not.

Artichokeleaves · 08/08/2021 14:52

I'm perfectly fine with shunning and deplatforming bigots regardless of sex.

Females who will not submit to males are not entitled to rights, equality and resources.

you're free to announce [as a lesbian] you exclude trans women, but be ready to get criticised for the transphobia inherent to that statement.

Female people should expect punishment if they dare to state a sexual orientation that excludes male people from access to your body.

There we go. Ground zero.

BluebirdsSong · 08/08/2021 14:52

Demands for trans inclusion is not homophobia, it is only because of your transphobia that you think so.

Helleofabore · 08/08/2021 14:53

Ahh! Ladies last night. Now another ‘literally’. And the text speak has come out.