Veronica Ivy (formerly Rachel McKinnon) on why it is right for trans olympians to compete

[ScreamingMeMe]

I can't believe The Economist published this crap, but here you go:

www.economist.com/by-invitation/2021/07/27/veronica-ivy-on-why-it-is-right-for-trans-olympians-to-compete

@Chickenyhead I'm starting to wonder if the word women refers to me. I don't have a woman's penis, so am I a woman?

Perhaps we all call ourselves females instead?
That way female refuges, female sports, female prisons and spaces could be clear and distinct from 'women', 'men' and 'male' as these three now all mean potentially male?

But that will just lead to demands for the word female.

I cannot believe anyone would publish that moron.

Veronica is still trying to convince us that the world is flat.

Perhaps we all call ourselves females instead?

Sadly in this very article, this activist labels anything less than full acceptance as a 'female' is hypocritical considering people are happy to call them 'woman'.

It was always going to be the case unfortunately.

We have had posters on MN insisting that they were always female but were 'assigned' as male wrongly. It is why I, and others, have had to resort at times to long definitions relating to gametes during discussions. Because posters come back with 'that is alright then, I am female so it is okay'.

Even if we came up with a brand new name for ourselves, they would take that too.

But not so much in sport funnily enough, because the idea of non-binary there just isn't useful in an area where there clearly are 2 very binary categories. So non-binary people are irrelevant in that particular arena and you won't hear about them at all.

Actually, Stonewall tweeted about a non binary sportsperson being misgendered yesterday:

https://twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1419933755817533474?s=20

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]But not so much in sport funnily enough, because the idea of non-binary there just isn't useful in an area where there clearly are 2 very binary categories. So non-binary people are irrelevant in that particular arena and you won't hear about them at all.

Actually, Stonewall tweeted about a non binary sportsperson being misgendered yesterday:

[[https://twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1419933755817533474?s=20]][/quote]
Yeah I saw that 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

sleepyhoglet phew!

I did figure you may, like me, be interested in the ongoing science, but I thought I'd check - and be really clear about what various sports bodies are trying to do with their "let's waits and see" approach.

I see this is yet another topic we aren't allowed to talk about

But if a anon binary person is in the appropriate sex category surely a commentator can be forgiven for misgendering?

@quiteathome

But if a anon binary person is in the appropriate sex category surely a commentator can be forgiven for misgendering?

NOOOOOOOOOOO

There is no forgiveness here!

I assume this non-binary sportsperson was in the appropriate sex category - the misgendering suggests so.

So what that means is that a non-binary person, who according to gender ideology doesn't have a sex and isn't a woman or man, is classed according to biological sex.

In that case a TW should also be classed according to biological sex. If it's OK for the NB person to be in a category that doesn't reflect their "gender identity", then it's OK for a TW surely?

There is a trans man in the Paralympics, funnily enough competing in the women's category. I don't mind, but does mean trans women should be in the men's category.

www.outsports.com/2020/11/9/21555550/ness-murby-trans-come-out-paralympic-canada-track-athletics-discus

Ness Murby.

Funny how this works, isn't it?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.outsports.com/platform/amp/2020/7/10/21319353/italy-valentina-petrillo-trans-athletes-trans-rights-pietro-mennea-athletics-paralympics-tokyo-2021

Was just thinking... Tom Daley has been TWAW before now, he retweeted his husband's tweet slagging off Sharron Davies (although the two of them knew what a 'biological female' is when they needed one to do reproductive labour for them but hey ho).

And since he won the other day, he has been very vocal about being openly gay, being an out sports person and how he wants to be an example to other young LGBT sportspeople. Quite rightly too - being gay or straight makes absolutely zero difference to anyone's sporting performance and I think it is still quite difficult to be openly gay in some sports.

I'm just wondering if he will be on the front row cheering on Laurel Hubbard in the weightlifting next week, given Laurel is another openly 'out' sports person of the LGBT community, or if he will.... Say nothing at all about it.....

"The Economist" is frankly crap. It publishes lies all the time to fit its agenda.

@Coyoacan

"The Economist" is frankly crap. It publishes lies all the time to fit its agenda.

I don't know... The article in question is clearly identified as an opinion piece, one of a series of commentaries giving different perspectives. As Helen Joyce also works for the Economist and said fellow staff had been supportive of her work, I'd be surprised if the Economist hadn't also published a GC article or two? The Economist's editorial stances are debatable but where it gives factual information (not in a commentary like this one), it is more reliable than the majority of publications (of course you always have to use your critical faculties).

I imagine it's penance for Helen Joyce!

Or maybe they are publishing both sides for balance, and letting people like McKinnon show everyone how nonsensical they are.

I wonder if they couldn't find anyone more credible willing to present the case for male bodied athletes competing in women's events, sighed, and said, "I suppose it'll have to be her again. What's she calling herself nowadays?"

If the BBC commentators were using the official Olympic site bio for Alana Smith, then it’s not surprising they were confused:

Gender: Female

Still, they’s were knocked out in they’s qualifiers so at least they weren’t misgendered for too long.

@KohlaParasanda

I wonder if they couldn't find anyone more credible willing to present the case for male bodied athletes competing in women's events, sighed, and said, "I suppose it'll have to be her again. What's she calling herself nowadays?"

Quite possible!

There is an article published in the Economist on the same day as the VI one by Chelsea Mitchell about the Unfairness of Transwomen at the Olympics. I don't have a subscription so can't read it all but Chelsea seems to be one of the Conneticutt runners who has lost out to males. There's a link to her article below the VI one. I expect it's a lot more rationally argued.

@jhuizinga

There is an article published in the Economist on the same day as the VI one by Chelsea Mitchell about the Unfairness of Transwomen at the Olympics. I don't have a subscription so can't read it all but Chelsea seems to be one of the Conneticutt runners who has lost out to males. There's a link to her article below the VI one. I expect it's a lot more rationally argued.

There are a couple of links to Chelsea's article on the first page of this thread.