Veronica Ivy (formerly Rachel McKinnon) on why it is right for trans olympians to compete

[ScreamingMeMe]

I can't believe The Economist published this crap, but here you go:

www.economist.com/by-invitation/2021/07/27/veronica-ivy-on-why-it-is-right-for-trans-olympians-to-compete

Trans women are women in the ways that matter ... to trans women.

Trans women are biologically male in the ways that matter to women. For example having an unfair advantage in women's sport.

If the only way you claim to support women’s sport is by fighting to exclude trans women, then I posit that you don’t actually care about women’s sport.

What?

Trans women are women in the ways that matter ....if you believe that feelings and validation matter but lung capacity, pelvic alignment, heart size, bone density, muscle fibre, fat ratios etc don't matter. I happen to believe they do matter but I'm just an adult human female so what do I know?

@aliasundercover

If the only way you claim to support women’s sport is by fighting to exclude trans women, then I posit that you don’t actually care about women’s sport.

What?

That's a fair bit of mental gymnastics needed there.

Kittenss wrote : "It says "transgender women are women in the ways that matter." But doesn't specify what those ways are."

I think the article implies the ways that matter are documents, with "female" or "F" written on them, which have been issued by governments and other organizations that accept any male person's self-identification as female.

For transgenderism ideology's supporters, female is merely the letter F on a document.

I wonder how the bills are getting paid

I heard it was carpentry. Wasn't there once a famous carpenter who wore a dress and could turn water into wine? Maybe this is how McKinnon/Ivy sees Veronica's self.

Why the name change from Rachel McKinnon? Something else they can't make their mind up about?

I heard it was because people kept referring to them as 'McKinnon', which they decided was too male-sounding. 'Ivy' is still a feminine name.

@Eyesofdisarray

Not them again- anyone know why the name change? If we are not allowed to ask, please delete Thanks

I think I read somewhere that McKinnon picked two female names instead of a surname because, when they only had one female name, people were always just referring to them as McKinnon.

So that worked

'Veronica' quotes the Olympic charter:

the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play

What about the fair play part of this, no mention of the legacy of having a male puberty and male strength.
It's all "bee kiiind" and no mention of the women who will lose out.

It is simply inconsistent and hypocritical to grant that trans women are “women” but not “female” and that trans women should not compete against "female" athletes.

Nice of them to say the quiet bit out loud.

This! This is the problem with allowing language to be destabilised through being ‘kind’. Now we have a sacked academic telling us we are then hypocrites to not consider them female since they are ‘women’.

This person abused a teenage girl on Twitter for wanting to compete in women’s and girls’ sport without males. The fact the Economist gave this abusive male column inches is despicable.

I think I read somewhere that McKinnon picked two female names instead of a surname because, when they only had one female name, people were always just referring to them as McKinnon
So that worked
Oh dear, I hope people don’t start abbreviating Veronica to Ronnie then…..

I thought I might go for The Arsehole Formerly Known As Rachel McKinnon but that’s probably an insult to Prince and likely to get me deleted.

@DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat

I think I read somewhere that McKinnon picked two female names instead of a surname because, when they only had one female name, people were always just referring to them as McKinnon So that worked Oh dear, I hope people don’t start abbreviating Veronica to Ronnie then…..

Yes! Ronnie is such a lovely nickname. I shall be using it in future. Hope Ronnie doesn’t prefer Ron instead!

I believe Dr Ivys appraisal was leaked to the internet, by themselves iirc. There were issues around academic rigour...

Not read it can I guess?

Sex is irrelevant and complicated and what is a woman anyway no one knows and gender is paramount
Trans people excluded sport
Inclusion is what sport is for
If women don't do as well it's because they aren't trying
Push back is because women are being mean wanting to keep things to privileged group and they're all bigots and also homophobia racism classism ablism and policing bodies and they torture baby rabbits in their spare time

Off the top of my head

Are women in all the ways that matter.

No elaboration on what those ways are.

And then. Documents? Is s person in an area without those things sexless? A woman is defined by what it says on documents.

Okaaay

Random stat irrelevant with self ID etc

Complaints a cover for bigotry

Give up the word female as well!

Why would any reputable journal think this person's ill-conceived opinions were worth printing?

Not even worth the electrons.

Oh yes as others have mentioned.

Ways that matter to WHO?

it's a nice sounding nothing.

And nothing new. For millennia men have pontificated on the eternal question... What is a woman?

Why are they irrational? Dishonest? Why do some not do as they're told? Etc etc

And of course judged what sort of woman we are, in terms of value. Or sometimes not really a woman at all.

Not much about trans men in that piece. Why is that I wonder?

I'm also struggling with the expectation of 300 trans competitors at the Olympics because 0.6% of the US population identifies as trans: around 0.0007% of the global population are Olympians, plus transmen are not going to be competitive.

Yes, there should be about a twelfth of a transwoman competing at this Olympics. Or 300,000. You be my guest with the Do-One-Ron's statistics.

Trans women are women in the ways that matter...to a distinctly vocal group.

From Chelsea's article, responding to the claim that one male isn't going to have that great an impact, (so we should all just shut up about it.

To recap: two male highschoolers compete against Chelsea in her running competitions, costing her a lot of opportunities:

And I’m not alone; these two biological males bumped more than 80 female athletes out of qualifying for higher levels of competition during numerous events over three years. [my emphasis, but that needs to be emphasised: two ruined the chances of 80. To date.]

@KohlaParasanda

I see Dr Ivy is doing her bit to try to keep Stephanie Barrett's transgender status under wraps, which seems to be something of a theme. I can't believe she was omitted from the list of trangender athletes by accident.

The media will publish what it thinks will generate clicks. Rationality is boring.

Is there a list?

I don’t understand how they can’t see that part of the reason why there aren’t dozens and dozens of transwomen competing in sports is that a huge proportion of transwomen would also see this as cheating and would be embarrassed to “win” under these circumstances.