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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

8,000 civil servants to be asked to include pronouns in email sign-offs

158 replies

RedRobin20 · 27/07/2021 00:59

The link is below, as is a copy of the text from the full Telegraph article. I never thought that I would be a Telegraph subscriber but their journalism has been much more trusthworthy on this issue (and I wonder therefore whether it is more open on other issues too). This is going too far. In trying to be inclusive of this 1% of the population, nearly 60% are left feeling alienated and some in tears over it, leaving themselves open to sex discrimination.

My eyes have been opened this year. I reflexively was on board with the TRAs as I considered myself a progressive, open minded and liberal person. Then I realised how regressive, hateful and deceptive the TRA lobby is and how heavily it relies on stifling open discussion around safeguarding women, children and gay/lesbians. It wasn’t until reading the intelligent, compassionate and considered discussion on these boards that I had realised the harm being done. I’ve bought and distributed close to 10 of Helen Joyce’s books, and I’m starting conversations about this with family and friends it is becoming clear how many are GC when the discussion is brought to light (instead of just stifling it all as ‘no debate’, conflating the “trans rights” issues with previous civil rights movements and dismissing any GCs as bigots).

Sorry, too tired to type coherently about all this as there is just too much to say and it’s the end of a long day. I just wanted to thank all of you and hope that 2021 is the year that the tide turns on all of this.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/26/scottish-civil-servants-asked-include-pronouns-email-sign-offs/

Thousands of civil servants are to be encouraged to add pronouns to their email sign-offs under plans for a transgender inclusivity drive, despite a backlash from staff.

^The Scottish Government is backing proposals that would ask its 8,000 workers to take a “pronoun pledge” under which they would add terms reflecting their gender identity, such as she/her or he/him, to signatures at the bottom of every work email.

Some people who class themselves as non-binary prefer pronouns such as they/them, while others prefer “non standard” terms such as “zie” or “zir”, which civil servants would be free to use.

Supporters of the plan to “normalise the inclusion” of pronouns have said this would “foster an open culture that is supportive of the LGBTI+ community”.

However, the plan has provoked opposition from civil servants, after an internal survey set up to gauge opinion provoked a row which left some workers in tears.

Almost 60 per cent did not want to add pronouns to their emails, the results showed.

Meanwhile, campaigners raised fears that workers could feel pressurised to comply with the “stupid” and “authoritarian” policy, which has been backed by the Scottish Government but is yet to be rolled out.

Comments written by workers expressing concerns alongside the internal poll were dismissed as “disappointing” by Leslie Evans, Scotland's top civil servant, in a meeting with staff last month.

Documents released on Monday under Freedom of Information legislation show Ms Evans told staff in a Q&A session that “what we write around our name” could be “good and helpful” and said inclusivity policies could be overhauled.

However, Trina Budge, director of the For Women Scotland campaign group, described the pronoun push as “deeply stupid” and accused the Scottish Government of displaying “controlling, illiberal and authoritarian tendencies”.

“A recent poll showed the majority of civil servants were against this move and it is sad, but not surprising, to see Ms Evans disregard this,” she said.

“In forging ahead with this or any associated coerced signing of a pledge, the Scottish Government would, potentially, be discriminating against a protected belief and also inviting sex discrimination.

“It is further evidence that this Government only pretends to consult or openly discuss, and ditches any views which conflict with their predetermined policies.”

A bitter debate has erupted in Scotland about the issue of transgender rights, with Nicola Sturgeon in favour of changing the law to make it far easier for people to legally change their own gender.

Advocates of the changes believe current rules, which require medical reports and for someone to live in their preferred gender for two years, are too onerous and contribute to high levels of mental health problems in the trans community.

Some feminists, including Harry Potter author JK Rowling, strongly oppose the changes, believing they would erode women’s rights and potentially place them at risk in women-only spaces such as prisons and changing rooms.

The survey set up by supporters of the pronoun pledge found that only 17 per cent of more than 3,000 staff at the Government and its quangos who responded said they already used pronouns on email signatures. A quarter said they did not but might in future while 58 per cent said they did not and probably wouldn't.

Many trans and non-binary people introduce themselves with their preferred pronouns, so others know how they wish to be addressed. Some equality groups argue that even for people who are not trans or non-binary, adding pronouns to emails can be an important sign of inclusion towards those who are.

The comments made by some staff left other workers “in tears”, Joe Griffin, a director general in the Scottish Government, said.

He called for “empathy on both sides” of the debate and added: “Nobody in a workplace environment should have the fundamental aspect of their identity challenged.”

It was planned that a follow-up survey would run in September, to measure the impact of the initiative.

A Scottish government spokeswoman said: “It is an individual’s choice whether to include their pronouns in introductions and email signatures.

“The Scottish Government is making progress towards our ambition to be a world leading, diverse employer where people can be themselves at work, with a workforce that reflects the diversity of the people of Scotland.

“As an employer we are committed to a progressive approach to advancing LGBTI equality. We encourage any action that makes people feel included and respected in our organisation.”^

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 08:53

@userchange902

So I'm going in as data protection lead, we have no legal basis for this data so I'm wondering if I can quash it by saying we can't compel people to give this data and as it could make some people uncomfortable we shouldn't make them feel pressured to. Come at it from privacy rather than appearing "political"?
That is a perfectly sensible approach, and a valid point, imo, even leaving aside the politics of the issue.
Nonmaquillee · 30/07/2021 08:54

@Finknottlesnewt

Another Civil Servant here. I work in Criminal Investigation of Organised Crime. I have been in the CS for 25 years. I have seen this nonsense in a few emails . Unsurprisingly it's ALWAYS the usual suspects. The ones who really don't seem to have any actual work to do. You know the sort of thing... the directors of strategic governance .. the 'change champions' ... Those of us with hardly a minute in the day could give less than no fucks about this. I would regard any 'requirement' to adopt this nonsense as a breach of my rights. Perhaps I don't WANT to tell anyone my 'gender preference' .. perhaps I like to be Sam (pronoun female ) on Mondays and Wednesdays only .. maybe I don't .. surely it's my right to change my mind every other day ?
😂 What does a “change champion” do, exactly?

Does everyone roll his / her / zir eyes every time he / she / zi sends out an email?

ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 08:55

@PumpkinSpiceWoman

I can see why JK would be against pronouns. Imagine if people had sussed she was a lady writer before she got famous! The horror!
I recently saw something to the effect JK chose to use her initials to avoid her abusive ex husband. Which is another reason many women may prefer to keep their identity low-key, sadly.

I will see if I can find the source to make sure I haven't misrembered.

ArabellaScott · 30/07/2021 08:56

Ah, here we are:

'JK Rowling has revealed that she didn't publish the Harry Potter books under her full name as she was scared of her abusive ex-husband.

The author, 55, said she was a 'bit paranoid' using her full name 'Joanne Rowling', so opted for her initials following her 'difficult marriage' to Jorge Arantes.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819915/JK-Rowling-reveals-didnt-publish-books-scared-ex-husband.html

Nonmaquillee · 30/07/2021 09:07

[quote ArabellaScott]Ah, here we are:

'JK Rowling has revealed that she didn't publish the Harry Potter books under her full name as she was scared of her abusive ex-husband.

The author, 55, said she was a 'bit paranoid' using her full name 'Joanne Rowling', so opted for her initials following her 'difficult marriage' to Jorge Arantes.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819915/JK-Rowling-reveals-didnt-publish-books-scared-ex-husband.html[/quote]
Yes, I had heard that.

The sheer irony of JKR receiving abuse for speaking out for victims of domestic violence is jaw-dropping.

highame · 30/07/2021 13:29

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/most-civil-servants-dubious-of-pronoun-pledge-plan-w8gb5fgnh

I don't have a share token, but the pronouns made the Times and great comments too

nauticant · 30/07/2021 13:48

To push back I'd be inclined to say that the balance between the masculine and feminine aspects of my personal identity vary according to my mood, what I'm doing, the surrounding circumstances, and many other things, and so to make a public declaration of gender would feel highly restrictive and inevitably would be false in certain future contexts.

PearlFriday · 30/07/2021 18:09

@userchange902

So I'm going in as data protection lead, we have no legal basis for this data so I'm wondering if I can quash it by saying we can't compel people to give this data and as it could make some people uncomfortable we shouldn't make them feel pressured to. Come at it from privacy rather than appearing "political"?
I love it. We have to do a gdpr quiz online twice a year and this "special personal data" is not required and shouldnt be stored. So, can you forward an email with special personal data? I suppose you can receive it, but forwarding it could be very problematic.
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