Is being trans a choice?

[user888]

Spotted in Does anyone ever wonder how this will end? Thought it might be worth its own thread. Maybe not. We'll see.

[quote CuriousPanda]@IsItAKindofDream
^“He followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”
“She followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”.
Do those phrases make you feel different? Why?^

Literally stereotypes in action.[/quote]
So you would be happy with your mother (or other female relative) sharing a prison cell with a man?

Why would my mother be in jail?

@CuriousPanda

Why would my mother be in jail?

I could have put money on you saying that instead of answering the question.

Or saying that your Mother is dead.

Anything to avoid answering the question.

Hypothetically, if you need it to be able to get your head around the question, you can assume that your mother has been jailed for a crime (possibly one she didn’t commit - for A Team fans).

I don't think imagination is a strength here

@SpuriousPanda

I don't think imagination is a strength here

Or logic. Or comprehension. Or cultural awareness.

It’s such a shame. Someone could really advocate for Trans people’s needs - but instead, people like CuriousPanda actually make things harder for trans people by peddling ill-thought out ideas.

@Oblomov21

I find these threads really hard to read and understand. I can't grasp the 2 very different viewpoints. I keep trying, read the Maya case threads. I just don't get how anyone can argue that sex is not biological, male v female.

And that being trans doesn't necessarily make you a woman. It seems a sad journey. You want something you can't have. Even after surgery, you still aren't what you want to be. Because you want the impossible. I can't suddenly become black. I just can't.

I'm starting to think most of it is just MH conditions, body dysmorphia etc that they hope will be resolved by the trans route, but few are. I'm sure a few are, but most aren't.

This has become more prominent in my RL because my close friend her ds announced he was trans last week. I'm so sad.

It is difficult, especially when they get derailed like this one has.

I'm reading the new Helen Joyce book Trans at the moment and it is reader friendly. It's impossible to jump right in as it is all so deliberately confusing.

I hope you and your friend can find common ground or at least agree to disagree. They are still the same personality you liked before.

I missed oblomov post

Its pretty much how i feel

A friend asked me a few years ago how what I thought about transwomen and at the end of the conversation told me that her son was wanting to transition, its been very hard for them all

If women were safe from male violence, then there would be no issue with people who read as male being in female spaces.
If women could safely share male spaces, there would be no issue at all.

The fact is, women are at risk from male violence. We teach girls to avoid the risk of being attacked. It’s gaslighting to suggest it isnt necessary.

Way off topic of the OP’s post.

@CuriousPanda

Why would my mother be in jail?

Filicide?

Why would my mother be in jail?

Not relevent. It's not a discussion about whether your mother is likely to end up in jail or not. No one here knows your mother. One could think you were trying to avoid answering the question.

If your mother was in jail then would you be happy for her to be sharing a cell / showers with a transwoman.
Yes?
Or
No?

GromblesofGrimbledon

Filicide?

I was trying to think of a polite way of saying this

You nailed it 😀

CuriousPanda I think that the poster asking about how you would feel if it was your mother was trying to tap into your empathy. Sometimes it is easier to put yourself into a situation if you try to see it from others perspective.

I do find it sad that your immediate response is to think that it is unlikely to happen to your mother. Instead of thinking about all the women (and mothers) it happens to on a daily basis.

These women are likely to be less fortunate and more vulnerable than your mother.

It is always so easy to give away rights that do not affect oneself or ones loved ones. I think it is important to also think about the people who are less fortunate.

I think it is important to also think about the people who are less fortunate

Even if they are only women.

Among stiff competition, tapping into the empathy of a TRA like this is arguably the most outlandishly unlikely possibility on the thread so far.

Grombles it's a cliche but I nearly spat my tea out

I believe that CuriousPanda will be back and tell me that he does care about vulnerable women.

I think it would be very sad if Panda didn’t even consider that a very vulnerable woman, same age as their mother may be upset at sharing a cell with someone who was getting erections. Therefore, I will believe that Panda will consider this and comment on it.

www.wsj.com/articles/male-inmates-in-womens-prisons-11622474215

@BatmansBat

CuriousPanda I think that the poster asking about how you would feel if it was your mother was trying to tap into your empathy. Sometimes it is easier to put yourself into a situation if you try to see it from others perspective.

I do find it sad that your immediate response is to think that it is unlikely to happen to your mother. Instead of thinking about all the women (and mothers) it happens to on a daily basis.

These women are likely to be less fortunate and more vulnerable than your mother.

It is always so easy to give away rights that do not affect oneself or ones loved ones. I think it is important to also think about the people who are less fortunate.

Frankly, "in a jail cell with a man", in and of itself, means nothing to me. If they were a confirmed sexual predator, then that'd be an issue, but if it was someone well-behaved who simply took a wrong turn somewhere with a non-violent crime, I don't think it'd be much of a problem at all.

Your problem is focusing on people's sex rather than on their actions, acting like someone's sex makes someone inherently dangerous.

Your problem is focusing on people's sex rather than on their actions, acting like someone's sex makes someone inherently dangerous.

The majority of sexual assaults are carried out by males no matter how they identify. One in two transwomen prisoners are sex offenders, compared to around one in five of the rest of the male estate.

Would you be happy for your mum to be sharing a cell with one of these transladies? 50 /50 chance.

I think your problem is that your ideology blinds you to actual facts.

Your choice to deny and overlook sex is yours. It's not mine. It's not that of many women. Those women should not be forced to validate political beliefs they do not hold with the physical presence and vulnerability of their bodies, their bodily privacy, their bodily dignity, their physical safety, in order to enable some natal male people freer choice and autonomy.

In the hope that the ideology is proven right, rather than that they suffer as a result.

Unless it is a valid argument that no one should be in sex segregated prisons, and these are unnecessary, it is pointless to argue that some natal male people should be given the choice of whether or not they are able to have direct access to the presence of natal females. (And those natal females given no choice about whether or not they consent.)

The fact that those natal male people may be serious sex offenders just takes the whole 'female people treated as subhuman props' part to purely ridiculous levels.

I do not expect you and everyone else to agree that you have a guardian angel or to state that you accept Christ as your saviour, or genuflect as the passing of an altar. The limits of personal belief are compelling the non consenting participation of others. And to require that they sacrifice their own sense of privacy, dignity, safety and legal rights to subordinate themselves to the politics of others?

It's outrageous. And deeply sexist.

Says someone who has absolutely no idea what it feels like to be a woman by sex trapped in a enclsed space with a man by sex she doesn't know.

No idea.

Redapplewreath good post.

@CuriousPanda

Ideology over facts. Here are some statistics for you to digest.

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

Says someone who has absolutely no idea what it feels like to be a woman by sex trapped in a enclsed space with a man by sex she doesn't know.

💯.

Goodness Grombles, the stats are even higher than one in two transwomen prisoners being sex offenders.

Shame on you Panda.