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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Question re relationships with trans people

542 replies

2021ismyyear · 12/07/2021 19:04

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

OP posts:
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8
OldCrone · 13/07/2021 00:35

it was all about loving people of the same gender.

What do you mean by 'same gender'?

Lifeinthelastlane · 13/07/2021 00:37

You play fast and loose with language panda. Most people expect a word to have one definition.
It is fascinating to learn that gay people were fighting for the right to sleep with transmen. (Which would never have been illegal, come to think of it).

CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:39

@Lifeinthelastlane

You play fast and loose with language panda. Most people expect a word to have one definition. It is fascinating to learn that gay people were fighting for the right to sleep with transmen. (Which would never have been illegal, come to think of it).
Trans people fell under the same "sexual deviancy" laws as gay people. The mere act of being trans was illegal, and intimate sexual acts with a trans person would likely be also.
CiaoForNiao · 13/07/2021 00:40

Weird how none of the gay men I know want to sleep with transmen.
And none of the lesbians I know would sleep with trans women.
And they were fighting for their rights back in the not so distant past. That was the right to same SEX relationships.

Some of the bisexual people I know would. Some wouldn't.

334bu · 13/07/2021 00:41

Fair enough but laws that were changed had no impact on any other groups. Decriminalising gay sex only affected gay men. Same sex marriage has no impact on opposite sex marriage. Gay men have not demanded that women give up their safe spaces because they are sometimes vulnerable amongst other men. Gay men and lesbians have not demanded that language used to describe others is changed because they are not included in that group etc.etc

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 00:42

So to be clear.

Gay men fought for the law to be changed in England and Wales so that being gay was not illegal.

Being gay meant same gender attracted.

So they fought to free v opposite sex people from being persecuted for getting together if they had the same internal gender identity.
And for same sex people to be able to love each other but only if they also had the same internal gender.

They did not fight for same sex lovers who had different internal gender IDs.

I think that's it.

OldCrone · 13/07/2021 00:43

Trans people fell under the same "sexual deviancy" laws as gay people. The mere act of being trans was illegal, and intimate sexual acts with a trans person would likely be also.

Which country are you talking about? And when did this change?

Lifeinthelastlane · 13/07/2021 00:44

There is no way a gay man and another man who turned out to have a female body would have been arrested for having sex.
Plenty of gay men were of course and thank goodness that law was removed.
I need to sleep now as I've to be up early on a Tuesday (assuming Tuesday is still "the day that comes after Monday" and hasn't now been defined as something else.)

StrangeLookingParasite · 13/07/2021 00:45

Gay people fought for the right to love people of the same gender, not for strictly defined "sex-based attraction" (which is a term that originated in conversion therapy language)

Good grief.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 00:46

'Trans people fell under the same "sexual deviancy" laws as gay people. The mere act of being trans was illegal, and intimate sexual acts with a trans person would likely be also.'

Gender ID is in your brain though. Gender presentation is different.

How the hell would anyone know who was trans? I mean trans people have been around forever we're advised but you can't tell by looking at someone.

????!!!

You think that eg a male with a female partner who identified as a man inside. And maybe had a more masculine style. You think they would have been prosecuted for homosexuality???!!!

Erm.

334bu · 13/07/2021 00:48

No, it is not homophobic to not share your transphobic definitions, nor was it all about "same-sex attraction", it was all about loving people of the same gender

It is not transphobic to state that homosexual people are same sex attracted. However, it is extremely homophobic to deny their sexuality.

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 00:50

Please no one report any of these posts.

CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:52

@334bu

*No, it is not homophobic to not share your transphobic definitions, nor was it all about "same-sex attraction", it was all about loving people of the same gender*

It is not transphobic to state that homosexual people are same sex attracted. However, it is extremely homophobic to deny their sexuality.

It is transphobic to misgender and exclude trans people on the basis of their supposed "sex".
DialSquare · 13/07/2021 00:53

There's two glorious threads on here for the lurkers tonight.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2021 00:55

It is transphobic to misgender and exclude trans people on the basis of their supposed "sex".

Do you think what you see as transphobia trumps homophobia?

CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:56

@CiaoForNiao

Weird how none of the gay men I know want to sleep with transmen. And none of the lesbians I know would sleep with trans women. And they were fighting for their rights back in the not so distant past. That was the right to same SEX relationships.

Some of the bisexual people I know would. Some wouldn't.

A transphobe primarily hangs out with other transphobes... This is supposed to be an argument or something?

You don't know every lesbian, and you don't know every gay man. And you immediately jump into invalidate and gay man or lesbian who would sleep with a trans person.

You think you get to decide who "qualifies" as a gay man, lesbian, or bisexual based on your criteria. And that's just reductive, that just makes your assertions mean nothing.

Of course you think "no gay man would date trans men" when every gay man who would simply stops being a gay man to you.

CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 00:57

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It is transphobic to misgender and exclude trans people on the basis of their supposed "sex".

Do you think what you see as transphobia trumps homophobia?

No, I think genuine homophobia (i.e intolerance of men loving men and women loving women) is abhorrent also.

I just don't share your transphobic definitions of "man" and "woman".

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 00:58

Are you going to answer any of my questions panda?

Do you believe that existing laws around the world about gay people are based on internal gender ID or sex?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2021 00:58

A transphobe primarily hangs out with other transphobes... This is supposed to be an argument or something?

It's anecdotal evidence, just like people on your side of the question have posted.

CiaoForNiao · 13/07/2021 00:59

It's not transphobic not to date/sleep with someone who has the same/different genitals to you. At all.
I, like my gay man friends, like dicks. So we only date men. That's not transphobic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2021 01:00

No, I think genuine homophobia (i.e intolerance of men loving men and women loving women) is abhorrent also.

I just don't share your transphobic definitions of "man" and "woman".

To quote you from another thread just now:

"You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition."

NiceGerbil · 13/07/2021 01:01

Curious out of interest. How do you think your posts will land with lurkers?

Do you genuinely believe that Alan Turing would have been arrested and charged for having a sexual relationship with a female person who felt like a man inside?

Really??!!

CuriousPanda · 13/07/2021 01:02

@NiceGerbil

'Trans people fell under the same "sexual deviancy" laws as gay people. The mere act of being trans was illegal, and intimate sexual acts with a trans person would likely be also.'

Gender ID is in your brain though. Gender presentation is different.

How the hell would anyone know who was trans? I mean trans people have been around forever we're advised but you can't tell by looking at someone.

????!!!

You think that eg a male with a female partner who identified as a man inside. And maybe had a more masculine style. You think they would have been prosecuted for homosexuality???!!!

Erm.

Ah yes, good old "but what if the trans person is closeted" argument.

Well in that case the world doesn't perceive them as trans and thus while there's no immediate danger of anti-trans abuse, being forced to continuously repress one's identity still makes a person's life miserable and is itself part of societal anti-trans abuse.

Same thing as repressed gay people.

334bu · 13/07/2021 01:03

It is transphobic to misgender and exclude trans people on the basis of their supposed "sex".

Sex and gender identity are two completely different things. Your sex can't change and unfortunately human sexualities are based on xex

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2021 01:04

Curious out of interest. How do you think your posts will land with lurkers

In my experience the type of people who turn up here to school the mummies have no self awareness whatsoever. Unconvincing bluster is all they have.