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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Question re relationships with trans people

542 replies

2021ismyyear · 12/07/2021 19:04

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

OP posts:
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8
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:15

So yes, excluding them under the pretense of "same-sex attraction" is transphobic.

Denying that exclusive same sex attraction both exists and is morally justifiable is pretty abysmal homophobia.

NiceGerbil · 14/07/2021 23:16

The gay men I know, the gay clubs I've been to...

In the main...

The male sexed body is pretty bloody important.

To deny this is homophobia.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:17

Why do you assume by default that we want vaginal stimulation, for one

It's about gay men and their views, nothing to do with the views of people who gave vaginas to be stimulated, or otherwise.

Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:19

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Why do you assume by default that we want vaginal stimulation, for one

It's about gay men and their views, nothing to do with the views of people who gave vaginas to be stimulated, or otherwise.

There's plenty of gay men who don't care.
Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:22

Because vaginal and / or stimulation is very important for sexual pleasure?

Maybe for you, definitely not for me. I'd dump a guy who fixated on vaginal stimulation the second it became obvious.

DaisyWaldron · 14/07/2021 23:22

So if a lesbian who is not attracted to men and thinks of trans women as women is attracted to trans woman and wants to have sex with her, she can say that without being called offensive names because you are not the sex/language police either ?

I'm absolutely, 100% in favour of people not being coerced or pressured into sex having sex with anyone they don't want to, and also strongly in favour of people being able to have consensual sex with people they are attracted to without being told their relationship is rapey or abusive or disgusting or that they are faking their sexuality.

NiceGerbil · 14/07/2021 23:29

'There's plenty of gay men who don't care.'

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether their sexual partner is male or female?

Homophobia.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:34

There's plenty of gay men who don't care.

And plenty who do. I posted research evidence of this upthread. The pp was sharing their own experience. Not something you have any insight into.

Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:37

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether their sexual partner is male or female?

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether the men they're dating have or don't have a penis. That isn't homophobia.

And plenty who do. I posted research evidence of this upthread. The pp was sharing their own experience. Not something you have any insight into.

If I gave the impression that I care at all about them doing so, I apologize.

What I care about is the significant amount of times in which gay men who don't demand their partner was born with a penis have their sexuality questioned or down-right erased, or where the existence of them being interested in us is regarded as homophobia, such as what the person above you said.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:39

and also strongly in favour of people being able to have consensual sex with people they are attracted to without being told their relationship is rapey or abusive or disgusting or that they are faking their sexuality.

I'm strongly in favour of words having meanings, particularly as they pertain to marginalised groups, and not ridiculous scenarios where two gay males are considered a "lesbian" couple because they declare themselves women. Or a bi woman and a straight male.

No one here is calling genuinely consensual relationships rapey or abusive, btw.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:41

@DaisyWaldron

So if a lesbian who is not attracted to men and thinks of trans women as women is attracted to trans woman and wants to have sex with her, she can say that without being called offensive names because you are not the sex/language police either ?

I'm absolutely, 100% in favour of people not being coerced or pressured into sex having sex with anyone they don't want to, and also strongly in favour of people being able to have consensual sex with people they are attracted to without being told their relationship is rapey or abusive or disgusting or that they are faking their sexuality.

Bisexual is an offensive name?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:41

There's plenty of gay men

Well there's a few per cent of them, I guess. It's homophobic to appropriate the words of same sex attracted only people.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:42

Barheim, what is it that makes you a man?

Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:45

Well there's a few per cent of them, I guess. It's homophobic to appropriate the words of same sex attracted only people.

It's homophobic to insist gay people aren't gay, insisting you know their sexuality better than them. It's homophobic to act you're the sexuality police and you get to dictate who can and can't be what sexuality based on you forcing your beliefs on others.

You do not control and you have no say over gay people, hate to break it to you.

Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:46

Barheim, what is it that makes you a man?

My gender, hope that helps, not discussing this.

Wildgarlicpesto · 14/07/2021 23:46

So yes, excluding them under the pretense of "same-sex attraction" is transphobic.

"Pretence"

That's grim.

Are you surprised people don't give a shit about the stupid sin word transphobia when it's coming from people who describe same sex attraction as a pretence?

I'm not.

DaisyWaldron · 14/07/2021 23:47

My lesbian friend who is married to a trans woman isn't bi, though. She's a lesbian. She doesn't fancy men. She has never fancied men. But she is attracted to her wife, who she has never thought of as a man. I'm bisexual. I'm attracted to men and women. She isn't.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:47

No one is saying they know anyones sexuality better than them but we do know what words mean.
If you are going to gaslight do it better.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:48

She bi as the word lesbian is a woman who is only attracted to woman.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:49

But her partner is a man (an adult human male), thats what trans woman means, you have to be male to be a trans woman, so she is bi.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:51

@Barheim

Barheim, what is it that makes you a man?

My gender, hope that helps, not discussing this.

What is a gender?
Barheim · 14/07/2021 23:51

She bi as the word lesbian is a woman who is only attracted to woman.

The group of people very eager to cry 'lesbian erasure' very much do love to erase lesbians, don't they?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 23:51

My lesbian friend who is married to a trans woman isn't bi, though. She's a lesbian. She doesn't fancy men. She has never fancied men. But she is attracted to her wife, who she has never thought of as a man.

Reality would suggest otherwise. We don't have to agree with your friend that her partner's sex is not what it is, like you don't have to agree with my lesbian friends that gender ideology is ripping their community apart.

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:52

People will assume you are not discussing it as there is not really any plausale answer that would be commonly understood?

dyslek · 14/07/2021 23:53

Not erasing anyone. Claiming an identity that is not yours is generally considered offensive.
Oli London anyone.