Question re relationships with trans people

[2021ismyyear]

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

I consider sex and gender to be entirely separate. One biological, one social.

I have had sexual relationships with both men by sex and women by sex. It depends, for me on the individual.

So, even though I do not have a gender identity, it is fully possible that I could and would have a relationship with a trans person.

I just don't have ANY personal gender identity, not even as a woman. Because I only know what it feels like to be me. I have NO IDEA what others feel like. I am identity LIMITED.

I think what I am saying is, my sexual orientation is for either sex, thus encompasses all genders by default.

But if your sexual orientation is for one sex, your likely gender pairing will be appropriately limited.

@PurpleHoodie

Ereshkigalangcleg

"I don't know how anyone can say that they would or wouldn't date a person they don't know."

Because most people know their own sexual orientation. I would never date a female person, because I am heterosexual.

Yes. Very much so.

Not including bi-sexual people: Straight, Lesbian and Gay people will ONLY romantically date/have sex with Females, or males, according to their Orientation.

It really is that simple.

@PurpleHoodie and @Ereshkigalangcleg

No, I think you misunderstand me. I understand that hetro people are attracted to opposite sex etc, but since I am not only attracted to one sex, it's very difficult for me to understand how/where people draw the line or can say that they aren't attracted to insert group of people

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Likewise, if a trans woman is discriminated against by someone who thinks she is a natal woman, she's protected under the same sex discrimination laws as a natal woman.

This would apply to any male, if they were mistakenly perceived as a woman on sight or due to some other reason and discriminated against on that basis.

Yes, that's correct. Because the purpose of the EA2010 is to tackle discrimination, not to sort people into immutable boxes, or put the identity of the victim under a microscope. If you reject a job applicant called "Jan Smith" because you don't want a woman working for you, even if Jan actually turns out to be a big hairy Dutch bloke, you've still discrimated on the grounds of sex and Jan could take action against you on that basis. It's the act of discrimination that matters in law, and that's how it should be, because clearly the employer here is still out of line and shouldn't get off scot-free just because he mistook his target.

You are bi-sexual chicken: What you mean is you will have sex with people of both sexes.

Other people are Heterosexual. They will only have sex with opposite-sexed adults.

Other people are Lesbian, or Gay. They will only have sex with same-sexed adults.

@chickenyhead

That quote was directly from here:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/our-statement-sex-and-gender-reassignment-legal-protections-and-language

Take up your disagreement there.

The legal definition of a woman is a female by sex.

Chickenyhead, suggest you read the actual Equality Act 2010, which is freely available online, and you'll see it says nothing at all about trans people requiring a GRC to be protected from sex discrimination.

You don't need to understand it Bi.

It just is what it is.

Bi-sexual people have their own "I don't want to/will never date/don't fancy such-and-such people"

It's the act of discrimination that matters in law, and that's how it should be, because clearly the employer here is still out of line and shouldn't get off scot-free just because he mistook his target.

Yes, that's what I said

@PurpleHoodie

You don't need to understand it Bi.

It just is what it is.

Bi-sexual people have their own "I don't want to/will never date/don't fancy such-and-such people"

I know I don't need to as it doesn't affect me. It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

Chickenyhead, suggest you read the actual Equality Act 2010, which is freely available online, and you'll see it says nothing at all about trans people requiring a GRC to be protected from sex discrimination.

It doesn't have to. A GRC means that a person has a different legal status, under the GRA. For most purposes in the EA these people are treated as their "acquired gender" (legal sex). There is nothing wrong with what chickenyhead said. Potentially anyone is protected from discrimination on the grounds of being mistaken for someone with a different protected characteristic. It's not exclusive to trans people. Being mistaken for a gay person doesn't make a straight person actually gay.

As a hererosexual female, i wouldnt be sexually attracted to a transman no matter how masculine they looked and its not just about the genitals. Neither would i be attracted to a trans woman even if they looked very masculine because i would not find the imitation of femininity or stereotyoes very attractive. However i have dated men in make up and androgynous clothes . I dont feel this is transphobic , its a mismatch between what you know, see and feel and what the person says they sre that maked sexual attraction a difficult obstacle to overcome for most people

It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

They're not saying it's because they are "trans", the straight, gay and lesbian people are saying that it's because they're the wrong sex as they don't fancy either women or men depending on their sexuality. Can you really not grasp that most people have fixed sexual orientations?

I consider sex and gender to be entirely separate.

Yes. Because sex is a real, fixed, biological, binary trait. Gender is a made-up label based on a bunch of stereotypes and personality traits which are not fixed and vary from person to person, culture to culture, era to era and also often age to age within an individual person's lifetime. Which seems a very good reason for it not to trump or infringe sex-based rights.

I have read it and I understand it.

This was a quote showing the difference between gender and sex.

Groan

@PurpleHoodie

You are bi-sexual chicken: What you mean is you will have sex with people of both sexes.

Other people are Heterosexual. They will only have sex with opposite-sexed adults.

Other people are Lesbian, or Gay. They will only have sex with same-sexed adults.

Exactly!!!

Based in sex.

It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

You find it hard to understand that, for example, a lesbian wouldn't want to be with someone who was biologically male and had male genitalia?

I know I don't need to as it doesn't affect me. It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

Men and women who state they are trans, are stating they belong to/subscribe to a particular ideology. A religious ideology. That's off putting for many people.

Worldwide.

For many reasons.

It's a universal fact that many people reject religions/religious oppression.

Agree, or disagree, it doesn't matter. It's just is what it is. For billions of people.

It is very much the reason that transgenderists condemn, threaten and (social media, computer age) "cancel" trans-sexuals who understand they ARE the sex that they are.

They MUST stay in their sex-segregated lanes.

They must NOT compel others to stay in relationships with them to "validate" them.

They must NOT compel false speech from most of the anyone else.

They must NOT compel false speech from anyone else.

@PurpleHoodie

They must NOT compel false speech from anyone else.

Hear hear!

I do not have a gender identity, I am not cis.

I am a woman by sex characteristics.

What an odd thread.

What's difficult to understand about a lesbian stating, categorically, that she isn't remotely interested in a person who has, or had male genitals? Vice versa for a gay man. Or a straight person saying they are not at all interested in a partner who has the same undercarriage arrangement as them? Or a bisexual person being very clear that they are still permitted to retain firm boundaries around their sexual and romantic choice or partner?

What kind of person are you if you try to coerce or persuade any of these people that the need to rethink their orientation?

There are words Eresh for those type of people.

Floral

There seems to be some confusion between some posters about there being a difference between sex (and therefore protected characteristics of sexual orientation and sex based on biological facts) and gender (based on a societal structure and covered as a protected characteristic of gender reassignment).

The two are and need to remain entirely separate.

Gender Reassignment as a Protected Characteristic protects women (females) from being discrimated against in a comparison to other females.

Gender Reassignment as a protected Characteristic protects men (males) from being discriminated against in relation to other males.

The EA provides for same-sex provision regardless of any other factors.

It's quite reasonable that this confusion occurs, as what gender means isn't clearly defined anywhere and is defined differently by different people and organisations. I think it's a huge part of the problem and would like to put clear blue water between sex and "gender".