Question re relationships with trans people

[2021ismyyear]

Twitter is full of people that are prepared to defend trans rights at any cost. I’ve seen some hideous things written about people that believe otherwise. The insults against jk Rowling were hard to read. We saw it the other day when maya won her appeal case. People over ran social media with insults against “TERFS” etc.

I assume these people would have zero issue dating a trans person in that case? If trans women are women and sex doesn’t matter and it’s widely accepted that you can switch gender, then will those people start dating trans people? Will we see more women dating trans men for example? Will tinder do away with any search filters?

If not… why?

Sex as a Protected Characteristic provides Protection against discrimination for those based on their Sex.

Female, or male.

Sexual Orientation as a Protected Characteristic protects those from discrimination from those who are same-SEX (sexually oriented).

MRAs n TRAs want to tear apart all of these Rights.

Bit silly.

Sexual Orientation as a Protected Characteristic protects those from discrimination for those who are same-SEX (sexually oriented).

Even on this site there are millions of posts about guessing the gender of a baby.

You can't.

You can guess sex.

But gender doesn't become relevant until the child becomes an adult and chooses an identity.

Still can't change your sex.

'Till the day you die.

Un-coupling Sex, from Gender - language wise - is very much needed.

It will happen.

#DressHowever

Gender Reassignment as a protected Characteristic protects men (males) from being discriminated against in relation to other males.

It's important to say this @PurpleHoodie isn't it. I think a lot of TW and TM think that the EA means that
Gender Reassignment as a protected Characteristic protects men (males) who transition, from being discriminated against in relation to women.

There seems to be some confusion between some posters about there being a difference between sex (and therefore protected characteristics of sexual orientation and sex based on biological facts) and gender (based on a societal structure and covered as a protected characteristic of gender reassignment).

Of course there's confusion. What does the word 'woman' mean, chickenyhead? Does it mean adult human female... or person who has a female 'gender identity'?

As a hererosexual female, i wouldnt be sexually attracted to a transman no matter how masculine they looked and its not just about the genitals. Neither would i be attracted to a trans woman even if they looked very masculine because i would not find the imitation of femininity or stereotyoes very attractive. However i have dated men in make up and androgynous clothes

My position too, @Flapjak It's not transphobic, it's just how I am. As is my gay brother who was born that way. And so on.

ShortBacknSides

Yes!

And thrice yes!!

Well it is currently used for both, which is where the confusion comes from. But the aren't exchangeable.

Everyone has a sex. Male, female (intersex being more difficult to assign on sight alone).

One can choose to have a gender, or not. I don't.

It is unfortunate that the word woman has be coopted in to gender. It should remain as transwomen or transman, as it is a Social construct, not biological.

But gender doesn't become relevant until the child becomes an adult and chooses an identity.

And then they can change it every day if they like. Because it isn't a thing. When people talk about guessing the gender of a baby, they are not being ignorant about the nature of gender identity. They are simply using the word gender as a polite synonym for sex. Because that was what most people did until about 10 years ago, and many people still do! They know perfectly well what they mean, they are just using a word for it which some people have decided means something else entirely.

#PoliteSociety

When people talk about guessing the gender of a baby, they are not being ignorant about the nature of gender identity. They are simply using the word gender as a polite synonym for sex. Because that was what most people did until about 10 years ago, and many people still do! They know perfectly well what they mean, they are just using a word for it which some people have decided means something else entirely.

Yes, exactly.

It is unfortunate that the word woman has be coopted in to gender. It should remain as transwomen or transman, as it is a Social construct, not biological.

Absolutely!

What worries me, and I understand about the historical use of gender, is that they are no longer interchangeable.

Laws and policies are being written using these words, which it would appear most of society don't have a clue what it means.

Like the GG situation.

Worldwide, we all need to look to our languages/dialects, and change/insist on un-coupling "Sex" (male/female) from "sex" (the act of performing sexual acts)

I'll start with Scots n Gaelic.

(Joking. Scottish women are hard-core. I'm not treading on their toes.
They're like the Style n Beauty lot
#WomenWontWheesht)

Yes, I agree with that concern chickenyhead. Look at the furore in Scotland over Joann Lamont's amendment to the Forensic Medicine bill though, certain people knew it mattered whether gender or sex was used.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yes, I agree with that concern chickenyhead. Look at the furore in Scotland over Joann Lamont's amendment to the Forensic Medicine bill though, certain people knew it mattered whether gender or sex was used.

I think this confusion is being somewhat exploited to the detriment of women's safety.

Eresh

Look at the furore in Scotland over Joann Lamont's amendment to the Forensic Medicine bill

What was the amendment about?

www.thenational.scot/news/18936441.msps-overwhelmingly-vote-replace-gender-sex-rape-support-law/

Opening the debate, Lamont told colleagues the change was about clarity and doing what was right for traumatised women.
She said: “In giving people rights, in giving women victims of rape and sexual assault rights, in giving all survivors of sexual violence rights, we need to be precise.
“Sex is defined in law, and gender is not. A right is not a right, if it’s unenforceable. We owe it to survivors to listen and treat them with respect.”
Her colleague Monica Lennon said that some of those backing the amendment were ”blatantly hostile towards trans women, and the trans community.”
She added: “Clearly, there are some people who want to exclude trans women from working with women and girls to have disclosed rape or sexual assault.”
Responding, Lamont said "Forgive me if I focus on survivors in this debate. We should centre the experience of survivors and ask what is right for traumatised women. These women are not responsible for what people say on Twitter or on Facebook.

Thank you.

Horrifying. Monica Lennon for example.....

@PurpleHoodie

Still can't change your sex.

'Till the day you die.

Un-coupling Sex, from Gender - language wise - is very much needed.

It will happen.

#DressHowever

The language itself is gender no less than gendered clothes, is the part you stubbornly refuse to understand.

The language itself is gender no less than gendered clothes, is the part you stubbornly refuse to understand.

People understand. They also understand that that it's a theoretical interpretation of some fairly basic words that is now being used against them. You can't berate people as stubborn for not wanting to submit to a theoretical position that is not in their best interests. We live in a pluralist society and need to accept others won't agree. There's been many a poster here insisting that the right side of history is to agree that woman has no meaning other than that men have decided on. It's a regular occurrence.
It's not stubborn to disagree. If you are unable to persuade people with your arguments then they are not up to the job.

Yes.