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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

A boy in dd’s Guides Unit

655 replies

Hoosi · 07/07/2021 09:16

DD went for her first session at a Guides unit yesterday. She has been asking to go for weeks, she never went to Brownies but four of her school friends are in this group.

She was telling me about it afterwards and said ‘this other dude…’. I didn’t know what she meant (a man walking his dog in the park? Another child nearby? Gender neutral way of referring to one of the girls in the group? A male volunteer expert helping out for the session?) but it turns out she was referring to one of the other children in the group who she thought was a boy. I said guides was supposed to be girls only and she got confused and thought maybe it was a girl 🙄🙄🙄

So, do I assume this is a trans male child? Do I ask the leader to clarify? I don’t particularly care about the boy being there, I wasn’t after a female only activity for her, it was just because her friends were members. But I don’t like the confusion, and I can see concerns arising in the future if residential trips become possible again.

What would you do?

OP posts:

Melroses · 07/07/2021 09:42

@coffeeandjuice

Loads of girls go to Scouts and Cubs. You're not allowed to run exclusively "girl" or "boy" clubs anymore as it's discrimination. It probably is a boy.

Of course you are allowed to run exclusively boy or girl clubs.

Just like the Masons is allowed to be and exclusive men's club.

Betty000 · 07/07/2021 09:50

What business is it of yours anyway? Why does it concern you?

woopdedoodle · 07/07/2021 09:52

@TrainedByCats

Gosh lots of new posters on this thread telling op not to be concerned..

I hardly ever post, there are more people with better knowledge around to answer questions, but.. you'd almost think that this was arranged to grab screen shots of outraged replies to all the new posters.

Or am I being paranoid?

lovelybitofsquirrell · 07/07/2021 09:56

personally wouldn't give it another thought. wouldn't bother me if my DD went to GG with boys or girls.

Melroses · 07/07/2021 09:57

Yes, it is a very odd thread.

toastantea · 07/07/2021 10:00

@TrainedByCats

Gosh lots of new posters on this thread telling op not to be concerned..

I'm not new, I have been here for years. I'm also not telling OP she shouldn't have concerns if there is a trans person in the group. I'm asking why it's the first assumption made.

Bryonyshcmyony · 07/07/2021 10:03

I don't think I'd give it a second thought. It's not really any of your business. It's made quite clear by guiding UK that they welcome transgirls (whether you happen to agree with that or not)

Redapplewreath · 07/07/2021 10:04

Because if as a parent you are paying for your female child to have the particular access to and benefit of a female only group, with a whole lot in its policy about the benefits of single sex activities and experiences and why they matter for female children, and in fact it is mixed sex but the illusion is being maintained that it isn't.....?

Yes, it's a concern. Particularly as it's well known now that this is a situation parents who wanted single sex opportunities for their children may encounter without honesty about it.

Fruityfriday · 07/07/2021 10:06

Can someone please clarify why its OK for girls to join beavers and cubs, but boys shouldn't be guides?

Whinge · 07/07/2021 10:08

@Fruityfriday

Can someone please clarify why its OK for girls to join beavers and cubs, but boys shouldn't be guides?

I believe it was a decision made by Scouting because of falling numbers. I don't think they made the change because they wanted to be inclusive, it was because they were worried about the future of Scouting.

GrassPollenIsTheDeathStar · 07/07/2021 10:09

@FruityFiriday because due to falling membership and finances Scouting needed more members so opened it up to girls. Guiding hasn't needed to do that

Tibtom · 07/07/2021 10:09

@coffeeandjuice

Loads of girls go to Scouts and Cubs. You're not allowed to run exclusively "girl" or "boy" clubs anymore as it's discrimination. It probably is a boy.

You are absolutely allowed to run exclusively boy or girl clubs. Scouts has been officially mixed sex for years but guides gaslights their members into saying it is girls only the admits boys so long as they identify as girls. They did initially illegally discriminate on the bases of gender reassignment by excluding girls who identified as boys.

Lots of clubs are just one sex: the Masons being a big one.

Fruityfriday · 07/07/2021 10:09

I think it was the the wrong decision, if girls have their own clubs then I think boys should have the same.

midgemagneto · 07/07/2021 10:10

Because women and girls have asked for a separate space for girls and this can be granted because of the ongoing discrimination that girls face in a mixed environment

Boys don't face that, but if the scouts wanted to argue no girls as they wanted more space to tackle male health issues for example that could be reasonable

When girls asked to join the scouts because the guides was too girly / restricted the scouts deemed that the benefit of single sex for boys was not justified

midgemagneto · 07/07/2021 10:11

They are allowed to have single sex male. It's just unsurprising that there is much less demand

GrassPollenIsTheDeathStar · 07/07/2021 10:12

Even if by keeping it boys only there was the real risk that Scouting wouldn't exist? What good would that do?

4PawsGood · 07/07/2021 10:13

@Fruityfriday

Can someone please clarify why its OK for girls to join beavers and cubs, but boys shouldn't be guides?

Because they’re two entirely separate organisations.

Also, there isn’t really a need for a boy’s own safe space where the boys can gain confidence to speak up, without the group being dominated by the noisier girls.

GrassPollenIsTheDeathStar · 07/07/2021 10:14

What would the benefits of Scouting being single sex be anyway? I can't think of any.

Whinge · 07/07/2021 10:14

When girls asked to join the scouts because the guides was too girly / restricted the scouts deemed that the benefit of single sex for boys was not justified

I really don't think this played any part in the decision. It was financial and out of fear that they would have to close.

Tibtom · 07/07/2021 10:15

I would be concerned if an organisation was trying to tell my daughter not to believe her eyes and that she should pretend a male was not actually a male. If they went swimming or any other activity where they had to change would she be afforded the privacy and dignity she is entitled to? Or would she be told it was wrong to maintain boundaries? If I was sending her there because it was meant to be a female only space then I would not be happy at the misrepresentation.

Etorih · 07/07/2021 10:17

Loads of girls go to Scouts and Cubs. You're not allowed to run exclusively "girl" or "boy" clubs anymore as it's discrimination. It probably is a boy.

In which case they are identifying as a girl. Which is potentially a safeguarding problem, particularly when it comes to toilets / sleeping space at residential etc. As a boy identifying as a girl will be sharing those spaces.

Scouts is mixed sex. Thus less of a problems as sleeping spaces / showers / toilets etc will be sex segregated.

Etorih · 07/07/2021 10:18

There is also the massive problem of girls being gas lighted to ignore their boundaries and turn the other way, rather than acknowledge what is right in front of them.

AlwaysLatte · 07/07/2021 10:20

It doesn't sound like an issue to me. There were girls in my son's Cubs pack 🤷‍♀️

Etorih · 07/07/2021 10:22

It doesn't sound like an issue to me. There were girls in my son's Cubs pack

The issue is mixed gender not mixed sex. There are safeguards in place for mixed sex. There aren't for mixed gender. That is an issue.

Fruityfriday · 07/07/2021 10:23

@AlwaysLatte that's the thing, I think people hear are saying that girls can have the option or cubs, brownies guides and scouts but boys don't have the same options. Just scouts. I'm not trying to wind anyone up but I don't think it's fair on boys not to have the same opportunities.

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