A boy in dd’s Guides Unit

[Hoosi]

DD went for her first session at a Guides unit yesterday. She has been asking to go for weeks, she never went to Brownies but four of her school friends are in this group.

She was telling me about it afterwards and said ‘this other dude…’. I didn’t know what she meant (a man walking his dog in the park? Another child nearby? Gender neutral way of referring to one of the girls in the group? A male volunteer expert helping out for the session?) but it turns out she was referring to one of the other children in the group who she thought was a boy. I said guides was supposed to be girls only and she got confused and thought maybe it was a girl 🙄🙄🙄

So, do I assume this is a trans male child? Do I ask the leader to clarify? I don’t particularly care about the boy being there, I wasn’t after a female only activity for her, it was just because her friends were members. But I don’t like the confusion, and I can see concerns arising in the future if residential trips become possible again.

What would you do?

But this thread is about having male people in Brownies and Guides.

Exactly. Moreover, it's about having male people as guides and leaders, pretending they are female and drawing up safeguarding policies which take no account of the fact that these people are male.

@Beamur

I think you've misunderstood my point. Men are also attacked. But it's mostly by other men, not women. So yes, men can be unsafe too. Which is the point you make in your other post. I'm not victim blaming anyone. But this thread is about having male people in Brownies and Guides.

I may be slightly on a different page. Certainly don't intend to derail this discussion as it's one I think is important.

I've always felt it an odd point to make when people say "yes, but it was a man who attacked him", as if it neutralises the argument about men being less safe walking around.

But maybe what posters are saying is that it's not down to women, which is a fair point. That said, I'm not saying it is any responsibility/culpability for women. I'm just challenging the common assertion that men don't have to look over their shoulder when walking alone at night.

I think part of this is down to how people view it as female/male rather than attacker/victim. If you look at things like the George Floyd case it's more aspects like race, socio economics, positions of power/authority that come into play. Their shared sex is still outweighed by the many other differing variables.

So, if a young gay male is killed in a homophobic attack I don't think you can just say "meh, male violence" as that's far too reductive and missing the nuances. The young gay man has no power over his attacker's sex/gender, so pointing out that the victim shared the sex of his attacker is a little like pointing out that a rape victim wore a short skirt. Sex is useful for wider analysis purposes but it's not a gotcha which dismisses the risk faced by individual non violent males from violent criminal men IMO.

But this is probably a discussion for a separate thread.

It's a point worth it's own discussion.
My point isn't a million miles from yours, but much less detailed. If you want to talk about the subtleties of male violence then go ahead and start a new thread.

RE TedImgoingmad Wed 07-Jul-21 do you knw of any examples of 10-14 year old Guides who have been made to share a tent with a biological (and biologically intact) boy of the same age?

A girl has just joined my son’s Boys Brigade group as she identifies as a boy. She’s in the 5 to 8 year old section but her older brother (10yo) has been asked to accompany her to the sessions and stay with her throughout for some reason. It’s run by a group of ladies in their 70’s and they have no idea what to make of it, neither do I, really. It was nice to have a boys only thing but hey Ho. Hopefully she’ll grow out of it.