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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

AIBU to think naked males shouldn’t be in the women only section of a spa?

272 replies

HermioneWeasley · 05/07/2021 13:42

A different case from Wi Spa in LA. A naked male got into the hot tub with a woman and her 6 year old daughter.

Can those of you who think this is fine, and trans people are an a oppressed minority please explain to me why this is ok, and how we safeguard women and girls from the predators that will take advantage? Please, someone who endorses this please explain why it seems fine to you, because I just cannot see it.

OP posts:
BadGherkin · 05/07/2021 15:41

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Is it as brilliant and neon as the light that flashes when people ignore non-contact child sex abuse?

I'm being blinded by one of those right now.

Yes, absolutely.
DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:42

Oh the utter hypocrisy and thinly veiled insults because I'm asking questions on here are so typical.

I wasn't ignoring abuse.

I also am not stupid enough to get my news from YouTube and whip myself into a frenzy about it.

Regardless, I was trying to understand why a trans man's penis was ok, nobody has an answer, that's fine. The lack of answer is an answer in itself.

Enjoy winding each other up now Smile

Woeismethischristmas · 05/07/2021 15:42

@ChainJane

I gave up on the video when she said she went nude with her daughter to be "culturally with it" because that's what Koreans do.

Assuming the man was not doing anything wrong (other than being a man) I don't see the problem. The woman wants to stop her daughter seeing nude men but is happy for her to see a bunch of random nude women? She's happy for women to see her daughter naked, but not men? Newsflash, women can be sex offenders too, even if they are Korean.

Speaking generally, we are in such a mess because we have a half-hearted approach to gender politics. Discrimination works both ways, if it's wrong to exclude a woman from a job because she's a woman, it's wrong to exclude a man from a sauna.

At what point does a man who transitions to a woman be "woman" enough to go into a female-only spa? Pre-op, post-op, never? If never, then a female-to-male transitioner would still have to use the women's section even after they've had surgery to get male sex organs and hormones to be able to grow a beard.

I think there is a difference is being happy to go nude in a single sex environment and in a mixed sex one. I’m aware that in lots of countries mixed sex nudity is common but not in the UK or in the US or in Korea.

In countries where mixed sex nudity is common there is a cultural understanding that being nude is not sexual behaviour, ogling is not permitted etc.

You can’t just pop your penis into a female space and expect everyone to suddenly have a continental attitude.

Etorih · 05/07/2021 15:43

Surely all penises or no penises are welcome, I don't understand why some are and some aren't and I'm trying to educate myself as to why some are accepted and others not. So far it seems that its about the intention of the penis owner, which seems really odd to me.

No penises are welcome. None. Whatsoever. Have you educated yourself now?

LimpLettice · 05/07/2021 15:44

Why do TRAs always plop the transmen argument in as if it's some fantastic gotcha, when the rest of the time they are ignored and only every celebrated or even mentioned for giving birth?

Etorih · 05/07/2021 15:44

Regardless, I was trying to understand why a trans man's penis was ok, nobody has an answer, that's fine. The lack of answer is an answer in itself.

Transmen don't have penises. Hmm

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 05/07/2021 15:44

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Oh the utter hypocrisy and thinly veiled insults because I'm asking questions on here are so typical.

I wasn't ignoring abuse.

I also am not stupid enough to get my news from YouTube and whip myself into a frenzy about it.

Regardless, I was trying to understand why a trans man's penis was ok, nobody has an answer, that's fine. The lack of answer is an answer in itself.

Enjoy winding each other up now Smile

I already answered you.

It's not a penis.

Your entire argument is founded on a faulty premise.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:45

@Etorih

Surely all penises or no penises are welcome, I don't understand why some are and some aren't and I'm trying to educate myself as to why some are accepted and others not. So far it seems that its about the intention of the penis owner, which seems really odd to me.

No penises are welcome. None. Whatsoever. Have you educated yourself now?

🤣 I was talking to the poster who said trans men were welcome, thanks for the input though.
LimpLettice · 05/07/2021 15:47

Yes, that was me. They are not penises. Hence they are welcome as they will be safer with other women. I've answered that twice. Are you going to answer why it's okay for this man or any man to be naked, whilst around naked women and children, and why standard safeguarding no longer matters if those men say they feel womanly?

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:48

Your entire argument is founded on a faulty premise.

So it's OK to have something that looks like a penis attached to a male looking body in a female space Confused

Honestly, and people are jumping on me for trying to find out why that's OK, even though I haven't commented on the actual 'situation' (if it even happened).

Etorih · 05/07/2021 15:48

They do have something vaguely approximately a penis made out of flesh from their arm however. But this is not a penis. Like a bicycle isn't a sofa.

I can't really imagine a transman wanting to take their approximation of a penis and wave it at eye level in front of a little girl anyway. The penis waving is generally a male trait. Not generally a female one.

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/07/2021 15:48

I’ve started a thread about threads being removed off AIBU www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4289011-AIBU-to-ask-Mumsnet-to-reconsider-a-decision?watched=1

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:49

@LimpLettice

Yes, that was me. They are not penises. Hence they are welcome as they will be safer with other women. I've answered that twice. Are you going to answer why it's okay for this man or any man to be naked, whilst around naked women and children, and why standard safeguarding no longer matters if those men say they feel womanly?
I never said it was OK now did I?

I never gave any opinion at all

Etorih · 05/07/2021 15:49

So it's OK to have something that looks like a penis attached to a male looking body in a female space

They'd need to discuss it with the spa first. But it's not ideal is it. Most transmen would no doubt prefer to be with the other willy wavers no?

Imasoulman · 05/07/2021 15:50

I absolutely agree, no way should any intact male be in a female changing room.

I'm curious though. If it is a fact that one can't change sex, then is it acceptable for a transman who has had top and extensive bottom surgery to be in a female changing room?
He is still female even though he has a constructed penis and faux testicles.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:51

@Etorih

So it's OK to have something that looks like a penis attached to a male looking body in a female space

They'd need to discuss it with the spa first. But it's not ideal is it. Most transmen would no doubt prefer to be with the other willy wavers no?

Most would, yes, but these boards are all about discussing the absolute tiny minority of trans people who do less than ideal things, aren't they.
Helleofabore · 05/07/2021 15:52

Regardless, I was trying to understand why a trans man's penis was ok, nobody has an answer, that's fine. The lack of answer is an answer in itself.

Why would a transman with a penis wish to cause distress to other females?

This is not the 'gotcha' you obviously like to think it is.

How about instead you answer whether it is acceptable for a naked male to expose a 6 year old girl to their genitals and to get into the tub with a 6 year old girl?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/07/2021 15:53

No I didn't, and I haven't went into that side of it at all.

Oh? Strange given that this is the subject of the thread, that you are focussing on this poor deflection.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 05/07/2021 15:54

I feel like I've heard some of these arguments before. How many times have I heard someone imply that a rape victim couldn't really have been raped, because she had consented to sex with other men before? The answer is lots.

Now it's being brought up that these women had consented to seeing other women naked, along with speculation that they would have consented to seeing a transman naked, and apparently that cancels out their testimony that they did not consent to seeing (or being seen by) this naked individual with their penis and testicles.

Sorry, women can say Yes to some people and No to others, and the No still counts as a no.

Deal with it. It's 2021.

t's essentially a rapist's argum

Helleofabore · 05/07/2021 15:54

Most would, yes, but these boards are all about discussing the absolute tiny minority of trans people who do less than ideal things, aren't they.

Safeguarding is based on protecting children and women from the tiny minority of people who do 'less than ideal things'. Regardless of who they are.

Why are trans people to be exempt from safeguarding guidelines?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 05/07/2021 15:55

Last line should read "it's essentially a rapist's argument, otherwise".

BadGherkin · 05/07/2021 15:58

Most would, yes, but these boards are all about discussing the absolute tiny minority of trans people who do less than ideal things, aren't they.

Forcing a little girl to view the genitalia of a male is a “less than ideal thing”? That is the understatement of the year.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:58

This is not the 'gotcha' you obviously like to think it is.

Not trying to create a 'gotcha' Confused

Don't you think its weird that a trans man's penis seems to be ok for a child to see because, according to that poster, despite looking like a penis it isn't one? Confused

I have my own reasons for not wishing to discuss abuse thank you.

I'm not trying to defect, I'm trying to understand

The paranoia over a simple question is mind boggling.

Etorih · 05/07/2021 15:58

Most would, yes, but these boards are all about discussing the absolute tiny minority of trans people who do less than ideal things, aren't they

It's about penis owners exposing their cock and balls in front of women and little girls. Not very nice behaviour is it.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 05/07/2021 15:59

Forcing a little girl to view the genitalia of a male is a “less than ideal thing”? That is the understatement of the year.

I was talking about the boards in general nit this thread specifically.