AIBU to think naked males shouldn’t be in the women only section of a spa?

[HermioneWeasley]

A different case from Wi Spa in LA. A naked male got into the hot tub with a woman and her 6 year old daughter.

Can those of you who think this is fine, and trans people are an a oppressed minority please explain to me why this is ok, and how we safeguard women and girls from the predators that will take advantage? Please, someone who endorses this please explain why it seems fine to you, because I just cannot see it.

YANBU and I'm annoyed I don't get a chance to vote before this was moved.

I think it might be because the polls would show that there isn't a great deal of support for the penis-in-spa scenario.

@GreatBigBird

Transmen are always welcome in the women's section, cause they are women.

The penis of a trans man is welcome in the women's section then is it?

I didn't look at the video, op, but of course no naked man should get in to a hot tub with a woman and child. That is dreadful!

YANBU. That is shocking.

What IS unreasonable is this being moved out of AIBU. This is an issue for all mothers, surely?

We needs a polls facility on this board if this subject is to be censored from AIBU.

Why is this subject censored on AIBU?

There is a mixed sex area in Wi Spa and that would be the appropriate place for anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable in the naked same sex area and for those who have modified their bodies to the point that others in the same sex area might feel uncomfortable with their presence there.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

I think it might be because the polls would show that there isn't a great deal of support for the penis-in-spa scenario.

It also shows that it’s a general disagreement and not “biased because it’s in the feminism section”

If you as a female person are happy to use mixed sex facilities good for you.

If you choose to use an advertised female only facility then no, there should not be boundary games about which male people get to breach them and which don't, with pressure on female people to give ground and enable things they are not comfortable with or consenting to because there is no way to make this ok. Shaming women to try and get them to move their boundaries to male advantage is in no way ok.

If TW get to choose whether they use male only or mixed sex, then female people equally need the same choice and respect to choose between mixed sex or natal female only, for the exact same reason. Otherwise we get the Hampstead Ponds outcome where natal males get to pick from three available facilities they can access at will, and many natal females now can't access any at all. Are we interested in inclusion and equality here or not?

So, let me get this correct.

A woman who is trying to broaden her and her daughter’s experience is to have her voice discredited because she is not using a vocabulary that is acceptable to some people. Because she cannot articulate quite what she wants to after being frightened at a protest where people were being beaten up, but she still wanted to voice her experience.

You can hear the stress in this woman’s voice. And all you can say is because she said

’she said she went nude with her daughter to be "culturally with it" because that's what Koreans do.

(Yes. It is clumsy. But it is a Korean spa used by Korean families.)

What kind of woman would you take notice of if they complained out of interest?

What kind of woman saying it is not ok for a male to be naked and get into the hot tub with my naked 6 year old girl would you listen to?

The penis of a trans man is welcome in the women's section then is it?

It’s not a real penis. Just a pseudo penis. Transmen are female.

I can’t see many transmen wanting to be in the female section of a spa 🤷‍♀️ It’s just the male men who insist on intruding.

It’s not a real penis. Just a pseudo penis. Transmen are female.

So they are welcome then. Thanks for clarifying.

Assuming the man was not doing anything wrong (other than being a man) I don't see the problem. The woman wants to stop her daughter seeing nude men but is happy for her to see a bunch of random nude women? She's happy for women to see her daughter naked, but not men? Newsflash, women can be sex offenders too, even if they are Korean.

He was doing something wrong. He was a male with his junk out exposing himself in front of women and children. In the women only area. We have sex segregated space for a reason: to provide safety, privacy and dignity. The majority of voyeurism, violence and sexual offenses are carried out by men. Thus him being there, with his cock and balls out and his legs spread, in front of a naked 6 year old girl, is a fucking problem. And he knows that. Which is why he was there. Even if you fail to see it.

@MNHQ can you advise why this was moved from AIBU? Is this topic banned from the wider forum? If so, why? What other subjects are banned from AIBU as most of it should surely be under various relationship topics?

YANBU.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

It’s not a real penis. Just a pseudo penis. Transmen are female.

So they are welcome then. Thanks for clarifying.

Of course they are welcome, since they are female and spaces are sex segregated because MALES are a threat. As pp have said, it’s unlikely that a transman would want to use a single sex female spaces and would probably prefer mixed sex, as this is less likely to trigger dysphoria. If a post op transman with a beard and a pseudo penis dod want to use the female space, then yes, there would likely be looks and a challenge. That person would then say “I’m a transman, a biological female” and women, while disconcerted, would be reassured that they would not be raped. The same is not true of a penis haver saying “but I’m a transwomen…”

@Mummyoflittledragon

96% of mumsnet agree with you op. Depressing that 4% do not. Of course we should expect a women’s section to be penis free.

Disappointed that Munsnet have moved this out of Aibu.

This absolutely should be in AIBU, @MNHQ after what happened at the protest. That was epic violence against women, using this ideology as an excuse. People need to know where this is going.

She clearly outlines the bloke had an aggressive stance, was there to provoke, with woke buddies. Sat on the edge with his penis at eye level to children, women and elderly women sitting in a female space jacuzzi in a family spa. Clearly not remotely dysphoric. Why should all of those women be intimidated like that? That's not a child staring and catching a glimpse of male genitalia (not that that's acceptable either) that is a man forcing women to be confronted by his body literally in their faces. Gross, perverted and rapey. As well as an act of purposeful aggression. Had that been myself and my DD, or my mother, I wouldn't have hesitated to protest on the spot and I'm not sure why anyone is trying to defend it.

LA is woke all over, the guy must know it, but it's not enough to get access, like the guy on the first video, he requires more. Don't just accept the penis is present, see the penis, closely, don't dare object to the penis. You know damn well he sat there with that nasty, smug look on his face in front of those little girls. Yuk.

It's interesting that topic of a man caught exposing himself needs to be moved to sex and gender. What about rape. Sexual assault. Do they all come under the sex and gender umbrella too now. Is women and children's safety a feminist issue rather than a safeguarding issue 🤔

Yes I also am disappointed this has been taken out of AIBU. I noticed when it popped up in my ‘threads you’re on’ list.

This is mumsnet’ way of relegating the topic to the broom cupboard and sweep it under the carpet.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Yes I also am disappointed this has been taken out of AIBU. I noticed when it popped up in my ‘threads you’re on’ list.

This is mumsnet’ way of relegating the topic to the broom cupboard and sweep it under the carpet.

Exactly. It’s a safeguarding issue.

Quick glance at first page of AIBU shows at least 6 threads, just from the titles, that should be on the Coronavirus board.

There's always loads of stuff in there that isn't even an AIBU question - for example "when your kids are 18 how old will you be?"

But anything with a hint of errant penis gets shoved over here quicker than you can say "malicious reporting".

[quote HermioneWeasley]@MNHQ can you advise why this was moved from AIBU? Is this topic banned from the wider forum? If so, why? What other subjects are banned from AIBU as most of it should surely be under various relationship topics?[/quote]
Hi @HermioneWeasley
We received reports about the thread so we took a look.
This section:
"Can those of you who think this is fine, and trans people are an a oppressed minority please explain to me why this is ok, and how we safeguard women and girls from the predators that will take advantage? Please, someone who endorses this please explain why it seems fine to you, because I just cannot see it."
seemed to make the thread more suited to the Sex and gender debate area so we moved it over.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

It’s not a real penis. Just a pseudo penis. Transmen are female.

So they are welcome then. Thanks for clarifying.

In an ideal world, I’d say no penises in whatever form in a women's only area, but if they have to go somewhere, then a transman is safer with other women.

In an ideal world (to clarify), they’d be in mixed sex areas - with people who have stated (by going there) that they don’t mind who they see or who sees them.

sex-matters.org/posts/prisons/prison_jr/

Sex Matters responded to the recent ruling regarding prisons with the reality of who some of these trans women who have been convicted of sex crimes.

I would not be happy / want my female child / mother / sister etc in what was thought to be a safe, female space with them - and it is our right to be safe. Full stop.

In the Spa, prison, hospital, rape crisis centre etc - females need safe spaces.

I fully support the rights of trans people to live their lives as they wish - but not at the expense of women.