Helen Webberley

[Signalbox]

Looks like Helem Webberley's substantive case has finally been listed for 26th July 2021

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

@statsgeek1 watchful waiting is the other tried and tested treatment that was successfully used for decades and as someone who went through this I'm also autistic and survived csa just like most of the girls who end up at the travistock I am very grateful that they gave me the chance to grow up and get the psychiatric treatment I needed rather than irreversibly damage my body with harmful medication and unnecessary breast amputation.
When people question the current medical transitioning of children it's because we are truly concerned for the physical and psychological well-being of the children not because we are hateful bigots

[quote Cabinfever10]@statsgeek1 watchful waiting is the other tried and tested treatment that was successfully used for decades and as someone who went through this I'm also autistic and survived csa just like most of the girls who end up at the travistock I am very grateful that they gave me the chance to grow up and get the psychiatric treatment I needed rather than irreversibly damage my body with harmful medication and unnecessary breast amputation.
When people question the current medical transitioning of children it's because we are truly concerned for the physical and psychological well-being of the children not because we are hateful bigots[/quote]
Look, I can only argue from my own experience.

I wanted to say a massive load of stuff about my experience and why but i can see it's not relevant. I'm old!I I picked up a broadsheet in recent days and immediately knew (A) I am not fond of Tories and B it provides warmth for the people said broadsheets hate.

Statsgeek the international guidelines you refer to - do you mean WPATH?

Because that isn't a body of experts. They had Stephen Whittle as a president, who is not a medic or scientist - Stephen has lived experience and as such should, of course, be listened to, but, I'm not sure what clinical, scientific or academic expertise Stephen could offer to build guidelines.

WPATH guidelines were called 'not worth the paper they are written on" in Holyrood by Dr David Bell. I'm inclined to agree. There isn't a Cochrane Review of best practice for trans care because there isn't enough data, and it does rather look that part of the reason for that is because e.g. Tavistock haven't been particularly thorough in their record keeping or critical thinking.

There is a report on Twitter that Lloyd's pharmacy will no longer accept prescriptions from Gender GP and it was a pharmacist who took a professional stand.

I'm not linking as it doesn't appear to be verified in any way but if anyone can confirm it is more than a rumour???

There’s a Reddit thread about it too - with a response from someone at Gender GP.

amp.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/ocz98p/lloyds_pharmacy_no_longer_accepting_prescriptions/

Gender GP does have an Aby on their staff page. At the top, right after Dr W and their business manager (before any practising HCPs), so I assume she is someone senior.

"Aby guides our education and advocacy programme and ensures that excellence in healthcare is at the heart of everything we do. She has an unwavering belief in what our organisation stands for – making life easier for trans people and those who support them – and she devotes her time to ensuring that the information we put out facilitates safety and equality in healthcare. Aby once danced the salsa with football legend Eric Cantona."

statsgeek1: Well, if the UK is insistent on doing its own thing as a result of conservative outrage instead of following the international standards of care I'd be shocked, I say shocked if there weren't opposition.

No, I'm talking about the standards and regulations that ALL uk doctors are required to follow. They have nothing to do with trans issues. Doctors cannot choose disregard the basic standards set by their own regulator if they want to stay registered as a doctor.

Standard 12 (Good Medical Practice) You must keep up to date with, and follow, the law, our guidance and other regulations relevant to your work

www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/good-medical-practice---english-20200128_pdf-51527435.pdf?la=en&hash=DA1263358CCA88F298785FE2BD7610EB4EE9A530

Helen Webberley failed to do this which is presumably why she ended up with a criminal record.

"But District Judge Neil Thomas said: "In this case there seems to be a clear refusal to follow the law and that is a significant aggravating factor."

"HIW instigated legal proceedings when Webberley continued to treat patients, despite being told to stop until she was registered."

"HIW chief executive Dr Kate Chamberlain said: "Unregistered healthcare services pose a risk to patient safety as they are not subject to the same level of scrutiny as registered services."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46400184

Is she actually responding to people's confidential medical/ prescription queries publicly on Reddit? I actually stopped reading as it felt wrong to carry on so this is a non- rhetoric question and not a statement of fact!

Being a treatment provider does not make you an expert, stats.

There is a distinct lack of good quality research from the people in WPATH. There is no work being done on detransitioners. If trans healthcare was properly evolving there would be a mountain of evidence supporting it. There is not. Not even into this sudden spike in referrals amongst our youth. If there was a similar spike in diabetes amongst young people there would be a public enquiry to find out the cause, and this sudden change has piqued the curiosity of, well, nobody in WPATH? That is peculiar, it implies a total lack of critical thinking which is a basic skill for experts in healthcare.

Bell is the very definition of an expert, check out his publications. More importantly he really cares about these kids. Caring does not always mean "give them what they want", as any sensible person knows.

Also, did you just compare me to a Nazi? Isn't that what gives a feminist her wings?

@FannyCann

There is a report on Twitter that Lloyd's pharmacy will no longer accept prescriptions from Gender GP and it was a pharmacist who took a professional stand.

I'm not linking as it doesn't appear to be verified in any way but if anyone can confirm it is more than a rumour???

It seems the GPhC have issued guidance to its registrants in relation to using overseas prescribers.

"GPhC guidelines issued last year said pharmacies must not work with online providers who try to circumvent UK regulatory oversight."

He [Rudkin] urged GenderGP to read its guidance on the online supply of medicines, and asked the Hong Kong-registered company to note that there may be “significant extra risks” when UK pharmacies work with overseas prescribers.

www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/gphc-to-look-into-concerns-over-hormone-scripts-to-pharmacies

www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/gphc-we-are-not-trying-to-prevent-trans-hormone-supply

Oh look, a day ending with 'Y' and women are being compared to Nazis again. How original 🙄

Did I see you just call feminists Nazis, statsgeek? Or do I need another coffee, because that would be utterly ridiculous, wouldn't it.

It seems the Webberley's were looking for a niche practice, and trans medication and care seemed to be it, for them. Perhaps they were looking to the US and assumed we would go down the same route.

There are very few gender dysphoric children in the UK but there are many who think they are, or are persuaded they are. Sorting out those who would benefit from medical intervention from those who need psychiatric intervention is not something that can be done quickly. Care and safeguarding are vital.

Someone I knew had Gender Dysphoria and didn't get surgical intervention until an adult. There were no dire consequences, the end results were good for her. That should be the outcome for all with GD. Time, care and safeguarding are essential, because the consequences of acting too quickly will mean mistakes.

Are the GMC Nazis for suspending Helen Webberley?

Ah we are playing people who don't agree with me are Nazis game, excellent.

The Nazis were very interested in experimental medical procedures. Just saying.

It would be ridiculous. The Nazis, like other regressive deeply conservative thinkers, wanted gender stereotypes to stay as they were and everybody to conform to a narrow ideal of how someone of their sex should behave/present. People who think in this way are against gender ideology because it means departing from those rigid stereotypes. Their view is that the body is fine, it's your brain/personality/preferences that need fixing.

Gender ideologists are just as regressive, but they have things the other way around - brain/personality/preferences are your authentic self, so they're all fine, and if your body doesn't feel right you get it fixed to match.

What the vast majority of feminists think is that brain/personality/preferences and body are one indivisible thing and that none of it needs fixing if you're not harming anyone else. Girls who hate what puberty is doing to their bodies don't need drugs to stop puberty and surgery/hormones to make them look less female - they need love and support to get through this difficult time, and reassurance that they're fine as they are and that being a woman is great, not the shitty end of the lollipop compared with being male.

Never heard of Godwin’s law eh, stats?

Luckily, the UK is not the only country that is seeking to find the best treatment plans. Particularly for the majority of the youth transitioner cohort. that of young females. Who seem to get overlooked by other people’s priorities.

In fact, it is great that countries find the best solution for their transitioner’s unique needs as can be accommodated by that country’s own medical system.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26344041211010777

Published April 22, 2021
Kasia Kozlowska, Georgia McClure et al

^Australian children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Clinical presentations and challenges experienced by a multidisciplinary team and gender service.*

They are in Spain now? The way things are going there, they will continue to rake it in, won’t they? Although how they sleep at night I don’t know.

recognised international standards for care of trans youth

Don't make me laugh, statsgeek1.

I take it you're referring to WPATH? They are, in in effect, a trade body for plastic surgeons and others working in gender reassignment. They are NOT a neutral body with the interests of patients at heart. They represent a very lucrative industry.

Their "standards of care" are to do with achieving the desired body modifications, not best outcomes for the patients long term.

There is no evidence that medical transition in childhood is beneficial long term and countries such as Sweden are now banning the practice.

The NHS is an evidence-based service - or, it should be, anyway. GIDS was unable to provide evidence to the High Court of any long term benefit underpinning its practice of giving blockers and hormones to children. Why do you think that is? Do you think they just lost it down the sofa or forgot that you need to bring evidence to court?

Does it not concern you at all, that it appears the NHS is giving children access to a medical pathway with extreme risks (such as sterility and impaired sexual function, as well as heart issues, stroke risk, vaginal prolapse, brittle bones, impairment of brain function) on the basis of ideology and no evidence?

Why choose the Webberleys?

I know a family with a huge amount of (predominantly) female complex generational trauma: terminal illness, alcoholism, bpd, suicide, csa by female, eating disorders, self harm etc

Younger teenage daughter is admitted to an inpatient unit for a year or so.

Older sibling - "totally unaffected by the trauma" won't engage in any therapy, family or otherwise. Withdraws.

Announces trans identity - You thought I was a boy but you were wrong...

Family talks to Mermaids. Family absolutely panics due to the (fake) suicide stats and (real) family history of suicide. 'if you see the suicide statistics for trans kids which are horrendous you know you have to do something otherwise they will kill themself'. Mermaids advise GenderGP.

From memory, for £150 3 years ago - "it's a bit expensive but worth it" - they got a Skype call lasting less than an hour to someone at GenderGP, an instant diagnosis of GD and access to hormones after a blood test.

A year or so later, went to a one-off appt at an adult GIC with the aim to get hormones paid for by the NHS rather than via GenderGP. Successful.

No therapy, no curiosity, no unpacking of the incredibly traumatic childhood. No wondering if whether to get any attention in the family you had to be 'female'. Oestrogen and blockers will sort it all out.
Less than an hour...

GenderGP are dangerous and the system is broken.

And this is what a WPATH success story looks like.

Imaging rocking up on a feminist board and arguing that a medic found by their professional regulators to be (checks notes)

disingenuous and manipulative and lacking the essential attributes of integrity and candour which are essential to suitability
is the best person to treat vulnerable children.

And that women arguing that children are entitled to high quality, ethical and well researched medical care are (checks notes again) nazis

It is telling, Mrs O that when we get TRAs on here they have no counterargument.

I just see repeated name calling and a tone that I'd forgive from my hormonal teenager, but, wouldn't expect from (presumably) adults discussing something that is very serious like potential harm to children.

That is always followed by a flounce.

It's like on the Relationships board, abusive men have a script, and so, it seems does TRA. Perhaps there is something linking the two groups.

Is all this under the assumption that being transgender means wanting to have the body of the opposite sex? statsgeek would you say that's your characterisation of what being trans is and therefore the only treatment is to modify the body as much as possible to emulate the opposite sex? (and associated pronouns, names etc)

Where does gender come into it if it's all about sexed bodies?