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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What are all the liberal celebs so quiet now at the spa?

288 replies

ClarrieGrundy · 05/07/2021 09:29

So we all knew that a man would get his cock out in front of women and little girls in a changing room at some point. And we would be told that the toddlers should just get over their bigotry.

Anyway, I was wondering why we haven't heard from all the slebs who have be parroting the TWAW line. Has anyone heard? Has anyone come out and and defended this brave penis? (Which I bet was a little bit hard as it sat exposing itself to a changing room full of women and little girls.)

Emma Watson? Sarah Silverman? Daniel Radcliffe? Why so quiet?

I listen to a few podcasts from comedians based in LA and I am always saddened to hear the casual way that LA millennials have decided that JKR is now toxic. Haven't heard anything about this yet from all of them.

Or am I being unfair?

OP posts:
waterlego · 05/07/2021 17:24

I’ve just been reading a DM article (not something I’d have entertained doing a couple of years ago) about the protests outside the Spa and the Antifa lot turning up for a fight etc. Many of the comments on the article are going on about how America has gone to pot, Biden’s fault etc. Evidently many Brits see this as something that’s happening over the pond and have no idea that the TRA juggernaut is well in progress here too.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 05/07/2021 17:27

America sneezes and we catch a cold (with apologies).

The twerps on social media often forget that America does not have shared history, culture and experiences as is (let alone the rest of the world). The more I see, the less I like (and I was never anyone who was starstruck with all things America anyway)

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 05/07/2021 17:31

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

The common thread in all of this is Press for Change and Stonewall. It transcends party politics. Stonewall were successfully lobbying & championing the rights of gay men and lesbians when civil partnerships were introduced under Blair, they were similarly involved when Cameron introduced Gay Marriage - but Lynne Featherstone of the Lib Dems likes to crow about their influence on LGBT rights under the coalition. By the time the Tories won an overall majority Stonewall had a well established lobbying influence and was a well respected (in Westminster) org, Press for Change meanwhile were doing their thing for trans rights, and in 2015 their ambitions merged (because Stonewall had achieved pretty much everything it set out to from a legislative point of view and that's where they found a new revenue stream). I think it's a succession of credulous administrations failing to think critically about long term impact and not really giving a shit about women.
I should say that I had a huge amount of respect for Stonewall prior to 2015 too. The fallout in all of our main political parties including the Lib Dems and the Greens is quite plain, and in the case of those two quite evangelical.
ClarrieGrundy · 05/07/2021 18:12

I wonder what would happen if that video had been recorded in Leeds/ Edinburgh/ Bristol/Cardiff/Belfast/ London? Take your pick.

As far as I know there have been no videos, but there have been broadly similar instances in Centre Parcs. Maybe other places as well?

I imagine the British public would have a lot less truck with the female penis. At least I hope so.

OP posts:
Blibbyblobby · 05/07/2021 18:35

@moreofthisagain

@ Datun It's because transwomen are women

But even if you believe that, that doesn't change the fact that letting TW into changing rooms etc, also lets in the sexual predators/ voyeurs. That's my point. That's the very fact based point based on generations of knowledge of how sexual predators operate. Everyone knows or can quickly work out that this is true. So why don't they care? And why won't they clearly articulate why they don'y care?

The ideologues don't even get as far as not caring. Their worldview precludes them from (consciously) even perceiving the risk.

Gender ideology rests on two pillars: that trans women are women (and TMAM) in every meaningful way, but that this cannot be externally/objectively confirmed, only self-described (self id).

Speaking logically, the possibility that opening up female-only spaces to trans women creates male-on-female risk boils down to two basic scenarios:

Scenario 1) Some trans women will behave more like cis men than cis women (using the words cis and trans here because I am framing the observation in gender ideological terms).

Scenario 2) Some male people who are not trans women will claim trans status to gain access to women and children..

Scenario 1 is rejected because that implies a meaningful difference between the trans - and cis- woman populations and the ideology says there is no difference.

Scenario 2 is rejected because that would be a valid reason to require objective proof of trans status and the ideology says there is never a valid reason for requiring proof of trans status.

Therefore, there is no risk that requires them to care about it in the first place, and anyone raising concerns can be comfortably dismissed as either well-meaning but misguided (“educate yourself”) or having a hidden, transphobic agenda.

The one thing they can't acknowledge is there are valid concerns because if even one situation exists where it makes sense to segregate by sex not gender and/or objectively prove a trans gender identity, the whole thing falls apart.

It's a perfect example of what happens when you try to fit an unrealistic ideology onto reality. You end up having to defend the patently absurd because if you acknowledge that any bit is absurd you acknowledge the ideology doesn't fit reality.

See also sports, prisons, 50/50 boards and all the other places where trans women have been lumped into the female category based on ideology without any evidence that their real-world needs and risks follow the same pattern as the original all-female group.

ClarrieGrundy · 05/07/2021 18:47

@Blibbyblobby Great post. I don't think I've ever seen the arguments put so clearly. Thank you

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OldTurtleNewShell · 05/07/2021 18:48

So you think it's perfectly rational for an anti-LGBT person to go to a known LGBT hotspot?
It's not a known LGBT hotspot, you absolute numpty. It's a well known Korean spa for families to which all sorts of people go.
And sure, there's no evidence of it happening. Hmm
Except that three separate women said it did.
Oh and the additional women asking for a refund in the first viral video.
And that the spa confirmed it
And that the person themselves has confirmed it was them and said they want to normalise female children seeing male genitalia.
Except for all that, sure, there's no evidence. Good grief.

OldTurtleNewShell · 05/07/2021 18:51

But to get back to the original OP, I'd definitely like to see celebs put their money where the mouth is.
Sam Bee, particularly. She was quite happy to have a go at JKR for god knows what. She should stick to her principles.

peadarm · 05/07/2021 18:56

The Conservatives started this culture war with their consultation to reform the GRA, and by making rude comments about the (mostly left wing) women who opposed it.

Indeed. And if we apply the bedfellows logic of TRA politics, that makes the Tories and TRAs chums and allies in their contempt for feminists.

As well as the Tories being the harbingers of self-ID (Theresa May campaigned for it) and devolving staff training to private activist groups.

This surely means that TRAs and various hangers-on and apologists are far-right extremists?

LittleNibbler · 05/07/2021 18:57

I wish people wouldn’t make this left vs right. I’m very left wing and I don’t support this at all, or quite a lot of what is happening to women at the moment.

ClarrieGrundy · 05/07/2021 19:06

@OldTurtleNewShell yes definitely.

I wonder what other ones should share their views.

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HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 05/07/2021 19:07

@peadarm

The Conservatives started this culture war with their consultation to reform the GRA, and by making rude comments about the (mostly left wing) women who opposed it.

Indeed. And if we apply the bedfellows logic of TRA politics, that makes the Tories and TRAs chums and allies in their contempt for feminists.

As well as the Tories being the harbingers of self-ID (Theresa May campaigned for it) and devolving staff training to private activist groups.

This surely means that TRAs and various hangers-on and apologists are far-right extremists?

Yeah, just ignore how they're all at it because it suits a narrative.
OhHolyJesus · 05/07/2021 20:25

I posted this in another thread but it's more appropriate and relevant here

TheDinosaurMum · 05/07/2021 20:27

@ClarrieGrundy

I wonder what would happen if that video had been recorded in Leeds/ Edinburgh/ Bristol/Cardiff/Belfast/ London? Take your pick.

As far as I know there have been no videos, but there have been broadly similar instances in Centre Parcs. Maybe other places as well?

I imagine the British public would have a lot less truck with the female penis. At least I hope so.

@ClarrieGrundy I live in a working class town in South Wales. If a nude male body got in to a hot tub with a nude woman and her nude young daughter, and said woman complained to her husband/partner about it. It wouldn't be the woman stood at reception complaining. Said man would be right up there and asking where the willy waving nudist was and to point him out.

All this is going to end badly in certain parts of non-woke Britain. I just wish it would all stop. If your body has testicles and a penis, do not expose them in areas specifically for people who do not have a penis.

We don't want to see it, we deliberately went in a room to stay away from seeing random penises. 🙄

NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 20:29

Yeahbutnow

Totally baffled by the argument it didn't happen.

The whole push is that

TWAW
you do need need to change anything about your appearance, gender presentation is different to gender ID
any and all things which were female should be open to anyone with a gender of woman and to challenge them is transphobic

I think everyone can agree on the above.

So.
Person with penis attends a female only clothes off place

Surely the response should be. They are being very brave and should be celebrated.

Why on earth this (incorrect) claim it never happened?

What's the problem with the situation to elicit this response?

It's 100% what has been pushed for ages. I'd have thought it would be greeted as a really positive thing?

TedImgoingmad · 05/07/2021 20:43

[quote OhHolyJesus]I posted this in another thread but it's more appropriate and relevant here

[/quote] Brilliant.
NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 20:44

Ah I get it now.

So this woman has certain views.
She doesn't like abortion, homosexuality, trans people etc.

Wants to do something to get a video so can encourage people to think her ideas have merit.

Rather than targeting and making something up at an abortion clinic, gay club or similar.

She thinks right.

I'll go to the female only spa where children are. And I'll go all the time until a person with a penis comes in. Then do a vid!!!

Bit of a long shot surely?

NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 20:48

The idea it's completely made up is just so silly and anyone who watches the film can see and hear exactly what it happening.

And why would it be a problem even if made up?

The fact is that the situation is a brave step for a transwoman (transwomen are women) using the correct area in the spa.

So it's a good thing.

So why the insistence it never happened? It's a good thing that the spa is trans friendly surely.

GromblesofGrimbledon · 05/07/2021 21:04

@NiceGerbil

Excellent point. Why aren't people celebrating it if they believe TWAW instead of trying to claim it didn't happen?

Surely they should be championing the transwomen who sat naked next to that little girl and berating the woman who dared to question the transowman's identity and right to be there.

Etorih · 05/07/2021 21:13

Excellent point. Why aren't people celebrating it if they believe TWAW instead of trying to claim it didn't happen?

I don't understand this either. It's really strange. Do they think that somehow it's wrong, now faced with the reality of what they wanted. 🤔

NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 21:17

From what I've seen there is a split here.

Two opinions

  1. Never happened
  2. Great, person in right place. Anyone with an issue needs to get over it. Little girls should accept it. Otherwise, don't go to female only stuff if you don't want to see a dick

Total opposites! Which is also a bit strange.

RedDogsBeg · 05/07/2021 21:19

[quote GromblesofGrimbledon]@NiceGerbil

Excellent point. Why aren't people celebrating it if they believe TWAW instead of trying to claim it didn't happen?

Surely they should be championing the transwomen who sat naked next to that little girl and berating the woman who dared to question the transowman's identity and right to be there. [/quote]
The man who berated the woman doing the video did but I understand he has back tracked now.

I really want the posters who think the behaviour of this male bodied person in the Spa is perfectly acceptable to come on here and defend it after all this is the core of their belief that TWAW isn't it?

NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 21:25

There's nothing for them to defend.

Acceptance without exception and TWAW.

Surely it's something to celebrate.

I expected more posts saying we've won what an awesome brave woman tbh

DdraigGoch · 05/07/2021 21:26

@Thelnebriati

The looney Left have created a perverts dream come true.

This is all happening under a conservative government, as a result of a policy introduced by the Conservatives.
Its happening in the MOJ, the police, and MI5 which are hardly hotbeds of communism.

Wasn't a lot of this done by Lib Dem Ministers during the Coalition era?
NiceGerbil · 05/07/2021 21:28

Well I remember they had two proposals raised at conference which were a bit..
Erm. Neither got anywhere.

Can only remember one which was to reduce the age that you can appear in porn/ sell sex to 16. To align with age of consent.

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