Employee using pronouns. Help!

[OfNobody]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just taken on a new recruit and he's just realised that she uses pronouns after her name on her email signature.

He'd love for her not to do that because he's GC himself (and has a very traditional client base) but can he ask her to stop? Is that in itself discrimination?

Would love to advise him but generally, all the work issues I see around this run in the opposite direction (employers asking employees for pronouns).

Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns without ending up on the front cover of The Guardian?

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden. She's just fresh out of uni and obviously thinks this is the way to go.

His clients are mostly all from one strict religious community (that he also belongs to).

That’s a good enough reason — why alienate your clients? The newcomer presumably knew their views. Sounds as if she’s hoping to ‘educate’ them.
But a more diplomatic reason would be that a set form of signature looks more professional.

Please could someone explain this to me? Is this a female signing off "Mrs Mary bloggs"? And the boss Just wants her to put Mary Bloggs so people don't realise she's female? Sorry I feel very ill informed. I'd really appreciate someone filling me in on case this comes up at my workplace thanks.

She wants to write

Mary Bloggs (she/her).

This signifies that she explicitly identifies with femininity

@Lottle

Please could someone explain this to me? Is this a female signing off "Mrs Mary bloggs"? And the boss Just wants her to put Mary Bloggs so people don't realise she's female? Sorry I feel very ill informed. I'd really appreciate someone filling me in on case this comes up at my workplace thanks.

No, it's someone signing off:

Mary Bloggs

Pronouns: she/her

Some people, for some reason, find that terribly offensive.

Some people, for some reason, find that terribly offensive.

It’s a bit like having an auto signature that says ‘praise the Lord’. It’s a statement of belief, which is generally considered inappropriate in the workplace (unless e.g. you work in a church).

@MotherOffCod

“ Pronouns in email signatures are unprofessional, politically motivated and inappropriate “

This statement is completely out of step with the real world of work right now.

It seems very wrong to see so many posters actively encouraging bias against anyone using a pronoun in their email sig.

It’s a thing, and lots and lots of companies and individuals are happy with it, and welcome it.

Get over it, or go complain about it on the sex and gender board (at time of posting this thread is in feminism chat).

Who made you the board police? I'm wondering why you felt the need to namechange for the shiny new divided boards.

Maybe you actually are a mod?

Thank you for everyone's explanation.

@OfNobody

*I think if there is a corporate style then everyone should use that. She might ask why the pronouns are not included though. Your friend might want to think about how they would answer that.*

Good suggested @Beamur

I'll tell him to do that. If she questions the pronouns, I'll leave that to him to decide if he wants to bother continue putting up a fight.

If that question is asked, he should refer to studies about sexism in the workplace and how customers have been found to behave differently when they realise that they are communicating with a woman.

If you work with "Jane" and are privy to her medical history, you already know what pronouns she likes used when you talk to or email someone else about her business because she'll have long since told you.

Her clients don't need telling because they will be responding to her emails and using the second person pronouns "you, your, yours" which are blessedly gender and number-free in English!

If the client emails Jane's line manager about her it's likely to be either a complaint or a compliment, so I say let them use the pronoun they instinctively reach for. If corrected, they will either be even more annoyed or wish they hadn't bothered, depending whether it was a complaint or a compliment.

If it's not house style to add pronouns to a corporate sign off she can be instructed not to do this.

Save us from sign offs with more virtue signalling badges than a Queen's guide's sleeve!

@merrymouse

Some people, for some reason, find that terribly offensive.

It’s a bit like having an auto signature that says ‘praise the Lord’. It’s a statement of belief, which is generally considered inappropriate in the workplace (unless e.g. you work in a church).

'Praise the Lord' is an exhortation - I can see why that might offend a non-believer, for example.

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement - it hasn't been suggested that the employee is asking others to add pronouns to an email. As I've said, I wouldn't support such a practice being compulsory. But I do feel an individual should be allowed to state their pronouns without being threatened with the sack, as some pps have suggested.

I can see why that might offend a non-believer

Exactly

I'm a non-believer in gender ideology.

You've neatly made my case for me, thanks!

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I think all new starts should have someone (office manager or administrator or whoever) show them the house style for email signatures to ensure consistency and a professional look. No need to go into the politics of it, I wouldn't have thought.

This.

Emails signatures should be standardised and not include unnecessary information.

You're coming out with wilder and wilder assertions in your efforts to demonstrate that adding pronouns to an email signature is a bad idea.

Lol. Try harder. I won't be adding them. I wouldn't employ anyone who wanted to add them. It's passive aggressive virtue signalling. That's it. Although on the plus side, I know who to avoid / what companies not to buy from when people do that 👍

@Siblingquandary

I can see why that might offend a non-believer

Exactly

I'm a non-believer in gender ideology.

You've neatly made my case for me, thanks!

The equivalent of 'Praise the Lord' would be 'State your pronouns'. That's not what's being done.

Are you telling me that you would think it reasonable for an atheist to be offended simply by a believer stating that they subscribed to a particular faith?

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement

A statement that is superfluous to requirements in a professional environment. The only additional information that may be required in a signature is a professional qualification.

My company even dictates what font etc you must use and the standard email signature cannot be changed , ang change would lead to a disciplinary. Including personal unnecessary information is also not allowed in accordance with company policies, as GDPR dictates that personal information shared during our job is strictly necessary only. The company should not be allowing the sharing of gender identification on company email.

If it's a HR-related email about her absence, it will go on her file, which she'd be entitled under GDPR to access at any time. Where I work, a colleague's absence file is freely available to that colleague without any formal request being necessary

Did you just misgender non binary Jane 😲 I though Kane had they / them pronouns 🤨

*Jane even 😂

@Beamur

I think if there is a corporate style then everyone should use that. She might ask why the pronouns are not included though. Your friend might want to think about how they would answer that.

I've never actually seen pronouns in an email signature. Surely all , or the vast majority of businesses, have a corporate style? I'm not allowed to put anything in my email sign off beyond the approved wording- and I'm one of the owners of the business.

Kane would probably have he / him pronouns

Do people have the right to express political views at work? Most places I've worked have a 'no religion or politics' type rule.
My understanding is we have the right to hold opinions, to express them outside of work, and as a general rule that shouldn't affect our job.

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement

Yes, a statement of belief in gender boxes and innate gender identity.

It’s quite possible to put ‘praise the Lord’ on an auto signature without wanting other people to convert.

However, it still wouldn’t be appropriate on a work email signature, unless working for a campaigning organisation.

Neither would ‘take back control’ or
#FBPE

@QueenofDestruction

My company even dictates what font etc you must use and the standard email signature cannot be changed , ang change would lead to a disciplinary. Including personal unnecessary information is also not allowed in accordance with company policies, as GDPR dictates that personal information shared during our job is strictly necessary only. The company should not be allowing the sharing of gender identification on company email.

^ This. 100%.

@Etorih

You're coming out with wilder and wilder assertions in your efforts to demonstrate that adding pronouns to an email signature is a bad idea.

Lol. Try harder. I won't be adding them. I wouldn't employ anyone who wanted to add them. It's passive aggressive virtue signalling. That's it. Although on the plus side, I know who to avoid / what companies not to buy from when people do that 👍

That's your prerogative - I'm not a company owner, I don't care who you do or don't buy from.

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email, and, I suspect, an even larger raft of people who DGAF either way.

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email.

That's nice. It's good you all identify yourselves ☺️