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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

999 replies

FannyCann · 27/06/2021 11:14

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

OP posts:
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ScreamingMeMe · 28/06/2021 07:46

Karen has done a video in this.

I think she makes a good point. Keep going, don't stop, steam roller over them if necessary.

ScreamingMeMe · 28/06/2021 07:47

Also some memes.

Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles
Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles
JustcameoutGC · 28/06/2021 09:02

It was so handy to have a wokebro just there, on hand to see how this agenda is being pushed by men, how men are telling women where their boundaries should be, how men are pushing the view that it is OK to have naked male bodies in female spaces with women and girls.

I think Helen Staniland needs to use this clip as visual aid when asking her question. All she needs to ask, who is right. The woman, or wokebro?

Actually, I think everyone entering a debate on gender identity and trans rights in a public forum should at the beginning of proceedings be shown this clip and asked who is right. That I think just flushes out a lot of confusion and obfuscation. It is the perfect antidote to #nodebate because this is the precise debate that was designed to silence. Let's get it right out there, front and centre.

OldTurtleNewShell · 28/06/2021 09:04

@EdinburghFeminist

They have just legalised indecent exposure.
This is what I was thinking. Apparently, the naked man on the video was just sitting there. So in other words, he wasn't getting dressed. He was just sitting there with his dick out watching women and underage girls get undressed. And when visibly upset women complain, some arsehole decides to scold them for not being inclusive enough. I have had enough of this shitty men's rights movement.
nauticant · 28/06/2021 09:25

I can't imagine that this review of Wi Spa (Weewee Spa) will be up for very long:

twitter.com/BeccaBsarro/status/1409375289352806402

Datun · 28/06/2021 09:28

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Karen has done a video in this.

I think she makes a good point. Keep going, don't stop, steam roller over them if necessary.

[/quote] She so gets it. She is formidable.
Thelnebriati · 28/06/2021 09:34

How many times have we been scolded and told that if a man is behaving inappropriately we can just get them thrown out or prosecuted?
People who say that have no idea of the reality of women's lives, and this video proves it.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 28/06/2021 09:35

Karen's video is bracingly good. I like her observations about class and income. And how safe the self-elected bystanderscold and policer of how women should speak felt challenging her yet how he completely lacked insight into how women and children felt when coerced into fulfilling the fantasy of the transgressor at the heart of this.

I'm with her on how fascinating it would be to interview but wokebro and the fabulous defender of boundaries.

Interesting call to introduce the behavioural risk survey findings in this context and introduce the plausible ethnicity power asymmetry.

Helleofabore · 28/06/2021 09:49

@Thelnebriati

How many times have we been scolded and told that if a man is behaving inappropriately we can just get them thrown out or prosecuted? People who say that have no idea of the reality of women's lives, and this video proves it.
It is very clear isn't it.

Who knows what that male's gender identity was? They were sitting in the women's section (and there is a male section and a mixed sex section as well!) with their penis on display - that is the undeniable fact. What gender they were, well, the people in charge and that moustached male all told the women the male had a right to be there, no questions.

(and there was more than one, there was the woman who simply asked for a refund on the ticket she just bought, there are several women in their robes standing outside expecting assistance to get the male out)

So, this is how it works in reality. This was a live example of how it works. Women complained, expressed distress, were told to get over it. No one approached that male in the female section to check.

If you are someone who agrees that male should have access to women's toilets and changing rooms, is this how you think it should work?

What if that male is actually not trans at all?
And even if they are trans, why do you think it is appropriate that they sit and look at the females and children changing in a communal area?
And finally, in your opinion, how would anyone find out if they are trans or simply a male abusing women and children without offending a trans person?

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 09:58

It is very clear isn't it

Are there any women who are watching that and not instantly understanding, on a very visceral level, what is going on?

Anyone at all?

It seems so blindingly obvious to me - the dynamic, the situation. It couldn't be any clearer.

But presumably the women who say they are happy to share spaces with transwomen, and who say transwomen are women, are seeing it differently?

Helleofabore · 28/06/2021 10:15

But presumably the women who say they are happy to share spaces with transwomen, and who say transwomen are women, are seeing it differently?

yes. I dare say they do.

I would like them to answer how they would know the difference and deal with this though. Now that it really has happened and is now very well known and is not just a 'it will never happen' thing they can ignore.

I expect the questions will get completely ignored though. They always do.

Let's be clear:

People who want us to accept males in female toilets and changing room don't have a reliable solution to sort trans people from perverts. of course, we don't assume trans people are perverts. But this video is evidence that there is NO way to tell the difference and the male is sitting and watching females and children in various states of being undressed. Sitting there. Not quickly changing and getting on with it.

So, also. How many more incidents will it take to get people to stop and listen that women need single sex spaces to be free of males? n+1?

EsmaCannonball · 28/06/2021 11:11

Wasn't it Layla Moran from the Lib Dems who said she could tell which males had good or bad intentions by seeing their souls? If only we all had her superpowers. (Or is she a they now? I can't remember.)

The tremendous woman in the video seems forthright but even she is holding back. Women are reduced to making statements such as, 'He has a dick and testicles,' because we are not allowed to say, 'Men are predators. Men are perverts. Men are voyeurs.' If we say those things we get accused of hysteria or exaggeration, even though the statements are based in knowledge and experience. We say we don't want penises in our spaces, and get accused of being uptight or old-fashioned or not like the Scandinavians, because even when a naked man is hanging around the women's changing rooms it's seen as a bit of a leap to question his motivations.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 28/06/2021 11:15

I think Layla also knew how she would ‘handle’ a tricky male didn’t she?

lionheart · 28/06/2021 11:29

I didn't know Karen was back. Smile

longcoffeebreak · 28/06/2021 11:37

This has made me feel very happy 😃

Siblingquandary · 28/06/2021 12:10

Wonder how these women would feel in that situation - a safe women only forest where they can feel free to be themselves :

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-57614836

McDuffy · 28/06/2021 12:52

I felt wired and worried watching that clip. I have previous for confrontation when needed and I like to think I'd have done the same as this woman but my heart was racing and the absolute front of that bellend trying to take her on and losing.
How the actual hell did we get here?

EyesOpening · 28/06/2021 12:55

“And actually for me the biggest feeling of violation would be a male seeing me naked”

Yes, imagine standing in a room full of men looking at you while you undress/are naked. I’d feel very vulnerable.

he described the woman who complained as "sounding like a bit of a Karen". I asked him what he meant, and he sort of muttered that she went about it in the wrong way and shouldn't have been so loud. "

I’m sure I read something recently that included saying a woman shouldn’t say things too loudly nor too quietly etc
Plus a drawing of a neckline which went from frumpy to slutty - seems they think we should be only allowed a very thinnest of lines as our parameters

RoyalCorgi · 28/06/2021 13:14

I've been thinking about this video almost constantly since it was posted yesterday. I don't think words can even describe how much I admire the woman who takes a stand in this. I'd have been so timid and just quietly complained about it. She is so clear-sighted, so angry, so determined not to be gaslighted.

And then the wokebro scolding her - it's such a perfect illustration of what we're up against. Constantly told it's our own fault if we're harassed or assaulted, but then when we try and take action against a predatory male, told that we should be empathetic because said male is really a woman.

Is there anyone who really seriously believes that a man with his dick out in a spa full of naked women is anything other than a sexual predator or, at best, an exhibitionist? How stupid would you have to be to believe that?

Has there been any response from the handmaidens? Any of them willing to defend this man?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 28/06/2021 13:22

Exposure is a sexual offense

It’s also a gateway offense to more damaging contact sexual offenses

Men who do it mean to cause fear and alarm to the women and children they expose themselves to

Men who do it should be arrested and charged

JuneJustRains · 28/06/2021 13:25

Let's get it right out there, front and centre.

I think he’d already done that.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 28/06/2021 13:38

‘I’m sure I read something recently that included saying a woman shouldn’t say things too loudly nor too quietly etc‘

Fucking hell, we’re back in the sixteenth century.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 28/06/2021 13:46

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

‘I’m sure I read something recently that included saying a woman shouldn’t say things too loudly nor too quietly etc‘

Fucking hell, we’re back in the sixteenth century.

1 Timothy 2:12 is the twelfth verse of the second chapter of the First Epistle to Timothy. It is familiarly quoted using the King James Version translation: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

*1 Corinthans 14:34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church8

WeeBisom · 28/06/2021 13:53

Here's what I don't get. The woman in the video says 'there's a man with his penis out in the spa' and the woke dude replies with 'she might be transgender.' So what that dude appears to be implying is that it's ok for a male to swing his dick and balls in a naked female only spa SO LONG as he has a particular mental state, which is that he identifies as or believes himself to be female. But why should the person's internal mental state make any difference? Surely, whether they are transgender or not it is completely inappropriate for them to be displaying male genitalia in a female spa!

What the dude is in effect saying is 'oh, we know that usually displaying a dick in a nude spa would be predatory, perverted behaviour. However, because this particular male has a set of beliefs you are expected to put up with this objectionable behaviour nonetheless.' But to my mind, the identity of the person is totally a red herring. It's his behaviour that is objectionable - no one with male genitals should be waving it around in this kind of space! Just because someone is trans doesn't, and shouldn't mean they magically get a free pass to behave in any way they see fit especially in a place with naked women.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 28/06/2021 14:00

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