Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

[FannyCann]

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

Why do you think girls from those households don't hide, avoid going home, spend nights in dangerous situations? Just from experience.

I'm not dealing in absolutes, I'm talking comparatively, but for some reason you keep ignoring that and keep claiming I'm saying middle class women are never abused.

@Novelusername

Being homeless or having a violent family where you have to run out the house and walk the street or spend time in the library like I used to makes you vulnerable prey to men in the public sphere who sniff out that vulnerability. Abusers seek out the weak, the poorer you are, the more abused you have been already, the more emotionally wounded, the more likely you are to be targeted. That's the main issue, I think, about being female and poor, having to be in spaces where you are vulnerable and out in public with men you'd rather avoid - if you have even a small amount of money you can buy yourself a bit more privacy and protection away from public spaces.

I'm really not sure what we're arguing about!

But anyway.

You seem to say in that bit that girls with families with money can buy safety when they get out because of what's going on at home.

Why would they have money?

Where can they buy safety?

What makes the Laurie Pennys of this world so exhausting is they are super-conventional but constantly demand you don't see through the facade. I don't know many people as thoroughly normal as her. I'd have more respect if she just said she wanted to be pretty, marry a man, and live a nice middle-class life. She's practically Margo Leadbetter, only Margo was a legend who'd never let a man get his dick out in the dressing rooms of the Surbiton Operatic Society.

I'm sorry, I usually have a lot of respect for your opinions, but I haven't got the energy to go into explaining what, to me, is obvious: that money and a stable home environment make you less vulnerable than being poor and from an unstable environment. I've been through situations with men in my life from a young age that my middle class friends from stable homes either weren't exposed to or had enough self-esteem to defend themselves against. My entire life experience has shown evidence of this inequality, time and time again, both in things I've experienced and what I've seen in others. In practically every area of life, you are more protected if you have money - where you live, the transport you can use, the services you have access to, the jobs you work in and the men that exposes you to etc etc I've no idea why this is not obvious to you, but there we go. Perhaps look for some research on the matter if you won't take my word for it.

What is this I’m teasing on twitter about the state of California basically changing the definition of the world sex to include gender?

*reading

She's practically Margo Leadbetter, only Margo was a legend who'd never let a man get his dick out in the dressing rooms of the Surbiton Operatic Society.

I doubt even Jerry was allowed to get his dick out in her dressing room.

I meant her dressing room at home obv, as she clearly must have had a huge one to house all the kaftans and other outfits. Jerry probably had a box room somewhere for a couple of suits. And he wouldn't have dreamt of getting his dick out anywhere at the Surbiton Operatic Society except perhaps the Gents loos.

Good article here on this:

www.spiked-online.com/2021/06/30/flashers-rights/

I don't think class has as much to do with why some women are TWAW.

I think some see it as protecting an "oppressed/vunerable" group.
Some well my friend who is trans is lovely.

But mostly I do believe it's that some women haven't realised how bad men as a class are, for some they might subconsciously know but be doing a protective thing to prevent themselves from actually exploring that when you start to go through in your mind okay X number of women are assaulted/raped/murdered that means there's a pretty big number of nasty men out there or a few very busy ones.

That means that some of the men I'm friends with or even love might be doing this behaviour that is a really hard thing to process and for some women they just can't go there.

Also some still believe that TW are some how different brain wise to men are born rather than made, so it's not fair to be mean to them.

I do get a little annoyed when I read that middle and upper class women don't get as much abuse as lower class women having moved in all of those circles it's everywhere just in different forms often the abuse in upper and middle classes is just better hidden but it's still there.

• I don't think class has as much to do with why some women are TWAW.

I think some see it as protecting an "oppressed/vunerable" group.
Some well my friend who is trans is lovely. *

Yes, my mother is TWAW and she is working class. She's also hugely empathetic, intelligent and a wonderful person wired to 'be kind' plus she has trans friends.

What I find odd is that she's had kids and suffered in society because if her biology and just can't see the implications of all this.

@Novelusername

Thanks for sharing, EmbarrassingAdmissions great article.

“That’s what ‘self-identify’ means: anyone can say they are anyone… So, rich, privileged people can claim to be marginalized.”

This is the crux of what's going on, really. It's exoticism of a socially acceptable kind, now that other kinds have gone out of fashion. There seems to be a certain complex, perhaps there's a name for it that I don't know, that exists within the middle classes, whereby people feel like they have to slum it in order to be truly alive - let's call it 'common people syndrome' after the great Pulp song. I remember reading 'On the Road' when I was younger, which typifies this syndrome - middle class privileged young men slumming it on some sort of quest for enlightenment, meanwhile appropriating the experiences of poor people, drug addicts, immigrants who they see as 'noble savages'. Of course, they all can eventually return home to their parents. I remember when I was at university, it was always the middle class kids who would want to be squatters, hang out with crack addicts, go completely broke by spending all on their loans on ridiculous things and plead poverty, which they really laid on thick. Similarly today, poor little rich girls want to be prostitutes. I can only presume having a comfortable life means that they feel like they haven't experienced enough, or that they don't deserve their privileges and so they feel a need to hit the depths in order to wake themselves up from feeling numb.
Cultural appropriation isn't acceptable any more, however, but there is still the possibility of claiming you are the opposite sex, or even just 'Queer' - a seemingly meaningless label, which is risk-free and yet allows you to opt in to oppressed status whilst retains absolutely every single one of your privileges - what a bargain!

Very astute.

NiceGerbil ^Because they have gone so far they can't back down now?
Because getting approval from woke types is more important than looking out for women and girls?^
Or maybe just because they're short sighted, can't bear to be disagreed with, or just don't actually like women very much.

From what you said, it just struck me that far from being feminists, they are being 'good' girls. So much of their feminism has been easy with fashionable ideas which get approval from the boys. Things that don't cost the boys anything.
This is getting pushback from women and girls as it is screwing around with us. It seems to be a sport to some of the boys. Or, promoting men's wants above all else. People like Laurie don't care about women's rights or approval above the responses and approval from this men's rights agenda.

In reality, far from being feminists, they are on board with women's needs (never mind wants and comfort) being viewed as lesser. Indeed women who make it uncomfortable for men should shut up and stop whinging. People (don't know how they 'identify') like Laurie will be their acolyte in reprimanding women and girls for their temerity to expect fairness, safety, equality, or even respect.

Esma yes, some of it is just Laurie going ooh look I'm really queer and special, not at all boring middle class heteronormative, please buy my book!
But she's saying some really dangerous shit, and she's not the only one. In today's twittering:

"No.
Nobody‘s body is a threat. Nobody’s body is morally superior to anyone else’s. No matter their race, sex, gender, ethnicity, age, ability, size or anything else, nobody’s body makes them worthy of contempt.
To suggest otherwise is the essence of supremacist thinking."

So we must ignore all the statistical verifiable evidence that adult male persons are overwhelmingly responsible for violent and sexual offending, because that's like saying male bodies are morally inferior. We must not safeguard women, girls and children because pointing out that males rape, batter and sexually assault on an order of magnitude greater scale than females, is like white supremacy.
This is your brain on gender ideology. Either that, or she's been drinking meths

Laurie Penny is in no way a feminist.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Laurie Penny is in no way a feminist.

But she will tell you she is. She will tell you—as she did on Twitter—that she has written eight books about feminism!

But she will tell you she is. She will tell youas she did on Twitterthat she has written eight books about feminism!

Correction: she's written 8 books.

Nobody‘s body is a threat.

What a very odd thing to say. What does she think about violent people who cause great harm, are they somehow not a threat? Or does she only think in existential terms?

@ArabellaScott

Nobody‘s body is a threat.

What a very odd thing to say. What does she think about violent people who cause great harm, are they somehow not a threat? Or does she only think in existential terms?

Exactly. The whole point is that some (many) male bodies ARE a threat, we don't know which ones so it's sensible and appropriate to keep them all out of women's safe spaces.

Laurie Penny is a Cool Girl and therefore bound to recite the received wisdom at all times. I wouldn’t rule out a Damascene conversion once the tide has turned among leftists. She’ll probably get a confessional book out of it.

I hope someone in authority is keeping an eye on the spa dick waver, because we all — except Laurie — recognise that indecent exposure is a gateway offence and often escalates further. How’s his hard drive looking, I wonder?

@NiceGerbil

A worrying amount of white men in the UK harbour resentment about women (and other groups) getting 'special treatment'.

I've met loads of men like this and it doesn't take much to bring it all tumbling out.

That's also an awful lot of men who seem to feel hostile towards women and girls in general.

They love it when they can say ha ha you wanted equality so it's your own fault.

From 'you wanted to be equal so I can punch you in the face now!' types

To

See how you like it when your precious female things have to let men in! (They're thinking of more women in pubs, women's sports on the telly, more women with more better jobs in the workplace, etc etc, which they subconsciously see as women invading their spaces).

That sort of stuff.

Many men seem to have a thing where they care about their female relatives, friends etc. But all the other women are not important/ seen as people. Hence all the objectification etc which they would find outrageous if it was their daughter.

That sort of thing.

The pleasure at seeing women 'taken down a peg or 2' or 'getting s taste of their own medicine' is pretty widespread.

This is so true. And I keep seeing vile American men commenting on any problem women are talking about, saying feminists caused it. Their arguments never make any sense & the guys just sound nuts.

I remember back in the 1980s, a few men at work who didn't like women much would refuse to do things for me that we'd all do for our colleagues, on the grounds that 'You women wanted equality so you can do this for yourself'. The most ridiculous one was when we had to move our desks around: one person can't move a desk on his OR her own, so we'd help each other out. But not those guys. Strangely, they were the ones without girlfriends.

@ArabellaScott

Nobody‘s body is a threat.

What a very odd thing to say. What does she think about violent people who cause great harm, are they somehow not a threat? Or does she only think in existential terms?

It's the constant clash between people who think in terms of individuals and those who think in terms of groups.

hmm, I think women like LP know exactly the terms in which they think. That expensive word salad she produced is uterly poisonous to the rights that protect all women, including actual disadvantaged women.

@dyslek

hmm, I think women like LP know exactly the terms in which they think. That expensive word salad she produced is uterly poisonous to the rights that protect all women, including actual disadvantaged women.

I'm actually not sure they do.

I'm not convinced the evidence suggests they are capable/willing to consciously examine their own motivations.

Very much like the male equivalents such as Owen Jones SJW.

Its far easier to project your focus outwards towards people who you think occupy the moral "low ground" than scope out the terrain of the ditch you've dug for yourself.