Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

[FannyCann]

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

Its far easier to project your focus outwards towards people who you think occupy the moral "low ground" than scope out the terrain of the ditch you've dug for yourself.

YY. It's that certainty that one is always, every time, incontrovertibly right. It really is almost a religious conviction - like papal infallibility but for the self.

@ArabellaScott

Its far easier to project your focus outwards towards people who you think occupy the moral "low ground" than scope out the terrain of the ditch you've dug for yourself.

YY. It's that certainty that one is always, every time, incontrovertibly right. It really is almost a religious conviction - like papal infallibility but for the self.

Yes I noticed this with the real life women who massively kicked off at me regarding my transphobia I object to out local rape crisis admitting TW in the W group.

She also told me a long wafflely story about how she has to accompany her TW friend to the toilet in case they are attacked so basically the person who is statistically significantly more likely to be physically stronger than her uses her as a human shield 🤦‍♀️ because they are so vunerable.

Just wrote a long post that went AWOL!

Balls.

Anyway.

I really do think it's the result of individualism, an underlying narrative harking back to Thatcher (that still underpins attitudes, especially as it's aligned to USA mainstream views which as a nation we consume all the time) and of course capitalism where everyone has to fight to succeed and if you don't succeed it's down to you. We have many socialist mechanisms (NHS, welfare state, protection for employees etc even given that it's being undermined)... But in general these influences are strong...

'"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." '

The thing I find most unpalatable about the vocal / influential individuals and many orgs who are fighting for various trans things.

Is that it's this writ large. And it's the left doing it.

Around the world. There are countries that have imprisonment or even death penalty for deviating from prescribed sex role/ gender norms. Gay men and lesbians if they express that in any way that might be noticed are in serious danger. From the police, from their families, their neighbours etc. It goes without saying that doing anything in terms of clothes etc in terms of presenting or being seen as behaving etc as the opposite (sex/ gender) will land you in real trouble.

Just some things I have seen reported recently ish (warning- upsetting,).

www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/12/eudy-simelane-corrective-rape-south-africa

'The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa's best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.'

'Sigasa and Massooa were tortured, gang raped and shot near their homes in Meadowland, Soweto in July 2007, shortly after being verbally abused outside a bar.

Human rights and equality campaigners are hoping that the public outrage and disgust at Simelane's death and the July trial of the three men accused of her rape and murder will help put an end to the spiralling violence increasingly faced by lesbians across South Africa.

Despite more than 30 reported murders of lesbians in the last decade, Simelane's trial has produced the first conviction, when one man who pleaded guilty to her rape and murder was jailed last month.

On sentencing, the judge said that Simelane's sexual orientation had "no significance" in her killing. The trial of a further three men pleading not guilty to rape, burglary and murder will start in July.'

'In Soweto and Kwa Thema, women seem unconvinced that Simelane's case will change anything for the better.

Phumla talks of her experience of being taught a "classic lesson" by a group of men who abducted and raped her when she was returning from football training in 2003. She says that "practically every" lesbian in her community has suffered some form of violence in the past year and that it will take more than one trial to stop this happening.'

Hello stonewall??!!

Calling UN women and LGBT+ groups!!!!

Why are things like this just...>>> ??? Not high up in your priorities?

Why aren't more people questioning why they are pushing a frankly very 'first world' issue while things like this are happening?

Around the world people who are gender non conforming, or homosexual, are oppressed by awful laws, and on top of that are at massive risk of violence, sexual violence, murder. This includes those who even slightly adopt clothes looks etc not accepted for their sex.

I mean FFS.

All the good they could do. For LGBT+ people around the world.

But what's their focus?

Redefining homosexuality completely. So being exclusively sexually attracted to the same sex... Has no name/ words. And is bigoted/ cruel etc

Pushing for male people convicted of sexual violence/ violence against women to go into women's prisons if they claim a trans identity.

Removing the ability of the half of the worlds population that have been controlled, exploited, traded, forced into incredibly restricted lives. Judged, mistrusted, demonised. Treated as breeding stock, had our babies taken away. Beaten, bought, sold, raped. Killed for doing.. nothing much. Etc etc etc

These charities and orgs are hell bent on removing any language that we have to describe ourselves as a group.

And are keen to call us. Essentially. Breeding stock. Again. And the language - vagina owners. Ovulators. Birthing people.

And then the stuff that is said about what a woman is. And left to stand.

Takes the submissive role in sex.
Blank eyes and an expectant arsehole.
Etc etc

It's just.

And so many esp lefties are.. Wow! This is so progressive and women who say... Erm hold on. God. They're the worst. Worse than violent men, repressive religions, laws that promise prison or death to gay men and lesbians etc etc etc.

What the fuck are they thinking??!!

Sorry had a few drinks, ranting?

Totally agree with your rant, it is utterly appalling,

It’s a utter tragedy what has been happening in South Africa to black lesbians. Many black men are very homophobic and misogyny is rife there. Black women and children are one ,of not THE most vulnerable group in the world, not men in dresses and makeup.

@NiceGerbil

I mean FFS.

All the good they could do. For LGBT+ people around the world.

But what's their focus?

Redefining homosexuality completely. So being exclusively sexually attracted to the same sex... Has no name/ words. And is bigoted/ cruel etc

Pushing for male people convicted of sexual violence/ violence against women to go into women's prisons if they claim a trans identity.

Removing the ability of the half of the worlds population that have been controlled, exploited, traded, forced into incredibly restricted lives. Judged, mistrusted, demonised. Treated as breeding stock, had our babies taken away. Beaten, bought, sold, raped. Killed for doing.. nothing much. Etc etc etc

These charities and orgs are hell bent on removing any language that we have to describe ourselves as a group.

And are keen to call us. Essentially. Breeding stock. Again. And the language - vagina owners. Ovulators. Birthing people.

And then the stuff that is said about what a woman is. And left to stand.

Takes the submissive role in sex.
Blank eyes and an expectant arsehole.
Etc etc

It's just.

And so many esp lefties are.. Wow! This is so progressive and women who say... Erm hold on. God. They're the worst. Worse than violent men, repressive religions, laws that promise prison or death to gay men and lesbians etc etc etc.

What the fuck are they thinking??!!

Sorry had a few drinks, ranting?

Rant all you want , it’s justified. I get angrier and angrier every day.

@Rhannion

It’s a utter tragedy what has been happening in South Africa to black lesbians. Many black men are very homophobic and misogyny is rife there. Black women and children are one ,of not THE most vulnerable group in the world, not men in dresses and makeup.

We aren't playing oppression Olympics again are we?

Why is it so popular?

And then of course it's an invitation to say. What about these people?

And then we can have a good row about it and go off topic.

Rhannion can I genuinely ask what you think that statement adds to the thread topic? And it's a pretty bold claim.

The statement that many black men are X is lacking in consideration/ nuance as well. It's the society that teaches, encourages, approves of the misogyny. The men and women are inculcated in the norms of their society. It's not the type of man, men are just men wherever they live. It's what they are taught to be.

Anyway why not the Olympics.

The Uighar people in China.
Yazidi people in Iraq.
Rohingya people in Burma.
Pretty much everyone in North Korea.
And more.

I don't understand why this has happened twice on s thread about that spa!

Loads of people have an awful time all over the world for a variety of reasons.

It's all bad. And it's all complicated. And wherever it is on the bastardised approach of adding up characteristics is beside the point.

The UK has a massive problem with doing anything about VAWG. No we're not being persecuted like the people who are being subject to genocide. But they're still being sexually exploited, raped, pimped out, assaulted in school, etc etc. And they all matter.

What is the point of asserting a hierarchy?

@NiceGerbil you posted about some particularly shocking and upsetting (but sadly not that uncommon) events in South Africa followed any an excellent rant.
Rhannion agreed with you and offered her own opinion on the matter.
It's a bit rude to then have a rant at her for supposedly starting an oppression olympics.

Anyway since you mention it, I have regular dealings with some people who have severe learning difficulties and are entirely dependent on their carers. A couple of our regulars no longer have living/involved relatives, live in a care home and every change in their treatment etc has to be subject to a best interests meeting with various representatives from the care home, GP and other agencies. I think they are extremely vulnerable. To government budgetary cuts, policy changes, changes of management and staffing, the possibility of rogue/abusive carers. Still. They won't be going to a spa and if any of their carers are men dressed up as women they probably won't notice so that's OK then. Just my own contribution to the vulnerability/oppression olympics. And entirely irrelevant to the thread.

I see that the local chapter of Antifa are raring to to attended the protest... FOR the penis.

They really are numpties aren’t they?

It's a bit rude to then have a rant at her for supposedly starting an oppression olympics.

YY. Parts of your rant posts did exactly the same, NiceGerbil. And I too agreed with what you said. We can't have a situation where we are never allowed to point out relative privilege either, otherwise we end up with luxury beliefs and white straight males with political clout being top of the "oppression" pile simply because they make the most noise and are listened to. However, the tendency to rank oppression points is a problem for social justice movements, particularly feminism, yes, but we all do it. Finding the right balance which is fair is key.

@littlbrowndog

I mean I don’t want my daughter to be exposed to men’s genitalia in a women’s changing room

Bigot😱. Call the Woke finder general!

Apologies and fair enough.

It was late.

Sorry Rhiannon.

No problem NiceGerbil. We are all angry and upset with good reason.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I see that the local chapter of Antifa are raring to to attended the protest... FOR the penis.

They really are numpties aren’t they?

Daft numpties indeed!

Thanks Rhiannon

That was meant to be s smile!

FFS!

Antifa appears to be loaded with male-to-female trans people. Apparently they've asked black women to attend the protest. I guess they don't want the optics of a load of middle-class white males (regardless of gender identity) calling a black woman a bigot. I know the owners of Wi Spa were only complying with the law, but I have a feeling they're about to find out that dealing with a woman politely but firmly asserting her rights is a lot easier than becoming an antifa cause.

What is it with this constant demand for women/ certain groups of women to do this or that?

Eg

This (I'll see if I can find it)

The call for female allies to go along to a demo or something to protect the transwomen from the violent t**FS

The person who did the burger thing as a performance. Some bloke had thrown a burger at them on the street. There was upset and disappointment that no women had stepped in. No mention at all of men not doing anything...

What is it with this constant demand for women/ certain groups of women to do this or that?

Optics, so it doesn't look like what it actually is. A (mainly white) man's rights movement.

Won't it look really odd to though?

It was a black woman who complained. They want it to look like black women in droves are really angered by her behaviour?

But, intersectionality? Is really important isn't it?

From what I've read it seems that (understandably) plenty of black women prioritise the fight against racism over feminism, which is up to them obv.

And here we have what is usually a group of white people of a certain sex, putting a request out to black women to protest about how awful the complaining woman was?

I can't imagine that would land too well tbh it's not very sensitive to intersection of axes of oppression surely?

(If that has been said- I haven't seen it).

@PronounssheRa

What is it with this constant demand for women/ certain groups of women to do this or that?

Optics, so it doesn't look like what it actually is. A (mainly white) man's rights movement.

What happens when aggressive threatening utter rage of members of one group is directed at members of the other group who are half their size?

How are the optics there?