Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

[FannyCann]

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

@AmericanSlang

Laurie Penny, who has been telling everyone on Twitter how to feminist properly, tweeted this response to someone asking what her 15 year old should do if there's a male with his penis out in a changing room with her:

"How am I supposed to know how she would feel? I haven't met your daughter, and I'm not her parent. But I'd advise her not to stare at other people's genitals without their permission, because it's rude."

Don't be rude girls. First rule of proper feministing.

Surely the whole point of the dude being in there in the first place was for the delicious attention?

Laurie Penny is really being very silly and naive there.

There are good responses on Twitter, but everyone, including Penny, seems to have missed the fact that this man didn't expose himself in the changing room but in the spa area.

Royal to be fair, Laurie was not responding to the particular case of the spa in L.A. She was holding forth on Twitter about how being a libfem is the one true path, and someone challenged her with a variation on the Staniland question. I thought her response was interesting in light of this example at the spa, of how their ideology is playing out in real life and affecting women and girls

“ I'd advise her not to stare at other people's genitals without their permission, because it's rude."

Don't be rude girls. First rule of proper feministing.”

The degree of submission required....‘be kind to flashers’....it beggars belief.

Also agreed Royal on LP's background, which is shared by an awful lot of clueless libfems - having never lived in the real world, it's probably easier for them to swallow the fantasies

@AmericanSlang

Royal to be fair, Laurie was not responding to the particular case of the spa in L.A. She was holding forth on Twitter about how being a libfem is the one true path, and someone challenged her with a variation on the Staniland question. I thought her response was interesting in light of this example at the spa, of how their ideology is playing out in real life and affecting women and girls

Ah, I see, American - I didn't realise that. It's still insane, of course. I think the point you and Embarrassing made about there being no way back are also true, however. Think of the most extreme example possible where gender-as-an-inner-identity is taken to its logical conclusion, and she'd be there defending it.

Laurie Penny is now very upset that people took exception to her suggesting that a teenage girl confronted by a male flasher in a female spaces facility should just politely avert her gaze.

It's out of context, apparently, & everyone is a big meanie for pointing out that that is, in fact, what she said.

She may be upset but is still nowhere near as upset as the women in the spa were that day.

Probably because she isn’t naked and having a random’s cock and balls waving about in her face.

I love it when people get called out and say ‘it’s out of context!’. It’s in the context of 280 characters, luv.

If I were naked in a women-only spa and a man walked in with his dick out, I'd sure as hell be staring at him because I'd be scared of what he might do next. Anyway, the bigger problem is him staring me.

Laurie Penny (I was glad to have forgotten her) needs to realise that women aren't irrationally scared of or obsessed with penises; we just know that the person attached to the penis is far more likely to do us harm. (And if they've already got it out in a women-only area the odds of them being a harm-doer have just shot up.)

Corvus that moment when you, as a feminist, realise you have just supported a flashers' charter rather than defend a female teenager's right to encounter only female bodies in a women's changing room

I actually think the Staniland Question is the wrong way round. I think more people would get it if it said - Should teenage girls be forced to undress and shower in front of male-sexed people in communal changing areas?

I think you're absolutely right. It's also the case, of course, that she had an expensive private education followed by Oxbridge, and like all - almost all - people from that kind of background, she has a vastly inflated sense of her own abilities and very little awareness of how much advantage her private education has given her. I can guarantee that if Penny had attended a comprehensive school like most people, none of us would ever have heard of her.

Ohhh, I see. That casts a useful bit of light on things.

@Datun

What if this man was a known offender out on licence who realised it was a way to get close to little girls? I don't know that but neither does anyone else because nobody with any authority was willing to ask any questions or investigate.

And it wouldn't matter, anyway. There is no ruling that says just because he's a convicted paedophile, he can't identify as a woman and use women's spaces.

Karen White was a self-confessed paedophile and multiple rapist.

I mean, let's face it, every single sex offender on the planet can now do this.

Every paedophile, every rapist, they can all go into this bloody spa.

The startling reality of this

Every single sex offender will be able to hang out in spaces where women and girls are getting changed and just sit back and watch or worse.

Women and girls will not be able to do anything about it and possibly will be accused of hate crime if they make any complaint.

tinyletter.com/Glosswitch/letters/the-ok-karen-33-you-should-feel-bad

I recommend this for some proper feminist analysis

Wow. Glosswitch nails it again.

@RoyalCorgi

"How am I supposed to know how she would feel? I haven't met your daughter, and I'm not her parent. But I'd advise her not to stare at other people's genitals without their permission, because it's rude."

I find that unbelievable, and also chilling. What did she think a fully grown man was doing in the women's spa other than staring at their genitals?

How is it possible to be that stupid? That gullible? I actually cannot fathom it. A man puts his genitals in a female child's line of sight, and her response is to say the girl shouldn't stare? What is wrong with her? Does she have no moral compass at all? Or is she just unbelievably thick?

This has been the go to response for some time.

Always along the lines of, do you want to inspect what is in people's pants, are you calling my son who wants to join the guides a pervert, why do you care what people have in their underwear, why are you so obsessed by genitals.

It's a silencing technique.

@EsmaCannonball

I actually think the Staniland Question is the wrong way round. I think more people would get it if it said - Should teenage girls be forced to undress and shower in front of male-sexed people in communal changing areas?

Exactly. The problem is not only what YOU can see. It's not only that you are being flashed with exposed male genitalia in a private area set aside for only female bodied people. It's also that the male-bodied person is seeing YOU naked. Averting your eyes does not solve that problem. The very idea that women and girls are bigots for wanting to keep their own privacy is so horrifying.

It's also the case, of course, that she had an expensive private education followed by Oxbridge, and like all - almost all - people from that kind of background, she has a vastly inflated sense of her own abilities and very little awareness of how much advantage her private education has given her. I can guarantee that if Penny had attended a comprehensive school like most people, none of us would ever have heard of her.

Exactly. She will be used to her opinions and ‘luxury beliefs’ being more important than anyone else’s.

@AmericanSlang

tinyletter.com/Glosswitch/letters/the-ok-karen-33-you-should-feel-bad

I recommend this for some proper feminist analysis

That is a fierce bit of writing. And she's absolutely right.

Glosswitch gets it right again. Liberal feminism is all about female attitude adjustment and asks nothing of men. If you just don't let yourself get upset about flashers/porn/prostitution/rape/violence then these things are no longer a problem. If you actually try to enjoy these things then you'll just be happier.

Datun I saw a new one today, that we cannot object to someone in our female spaces just because they have a "different genital arrangement".
Oh, and if we don't like that particular "arrangement" in our eyeline, we can "just turn around". Why did we never think of that - just avert your eyes!

So powerful from Glosswitch. Every single word. I want to hug her. And this bit is so spot on:

'The women who are charged with doing the most getting over themselves – the most denial of feelings – are not privately educated career feminists. They’re women in refuges, prisons, surrogacy hostels, brothels. Women who, presumably, aren’t always classy enough to know not to be “rude”. Thank god their betters are on hand to advise them.'

@AmericanSlang

Datun I saw a new one today, that we cannot object to someone in our female spaces just because they have a "different genital arrangement". Oh, and if we don't like that particular "arrangement" in our eyeline, we can "just turn around". Why did we never think of that - just avert your eyes!

It's all par for the course isn't it. Reality and commonsense have been ignored for so long. Along with judging.

Well I bloody judge.

The Wi Spa video has been going round and round in my head. Partly because it just brings all the bullshit into such focus partly because of how incredible the lady was, but now I think it is something else.

It is that the women are isolated. There is no help. Not the law, not security, not the police, no by standers. No one. There is literally nothing to stop the worst men imaginable coming into our changing rooms. If that man was a raging peado, no one was asking, no one was coming to the rescue, until, perhaps, he did something inappropriate. But what? Staring? Touching himself or others? What would actually get him removed?

It is just so so fucked.