Joan of Arc was trans????

[Greenandcabbagelooking]

It's Schools Diversity Week this week. There has been no mention of any kind of diversity other than LGBTQIA+. Heavy on the T. We've been reminded every day for weeks about this.

Today's update says Joan of Arc was trans because she didn't dress like a woman. There's even a discussion on the pronouns she (sorry, he/they) would have used. Silly me, I though Joan was just a woman who was fed up with the limitations her sex imposed on her. Clearly short hair + trousers = man.

I'm all for showing young people a diverse range of role models, but transing people who lived several hundred years ago is not all that helpful.

I think that the situation is similar here in the UK, the majority of the public do not actually agree with this, however politicians are captured and most people don't care enough to be bothered by it.

Kajsa Ekis Ekman and others like her in Sweden have faced being cancelled from speaking at events, called hateful etc because they speak openly about this, and because they, as you say, are honest about the true biological sex.
I, too, hope that the tide is turning both in the UK and in Sweden! Most of the people I know in Sweden on FB etc who consider themselves progressive and compassionate are sharing and liking posts, articles etc that are very much pro trans ideology and I think, same as here, it is the accepted "progressive" view to hold in Sweden. Whenever I raise a gender critical point in conversations in Sweden I am met with an uncomfortable silence (just as I am here in the UK).

Definitely update us on how things are once you have moved back, I would love to think that you are right.
Also check out Kvinnolobbyn and their podcasts on the subject, as well as Aleksa Lundberg.

The net gets wider and wider: I've seen George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans if we want to 'deadname' her) referred to as 'trans' because she used a male pen name.

Ash Sarkar was on the radio this morning saying transwomen were under-represented in the Olympics because 1% of the population is trans. The transwoman who was on Woman's Hour the other day used the same figure.

Do you have a source for this?

@DadJoke

Do you have a source for this?

If you mean for the 1% of the population being trans, I have never seen one. Can only assume that it's been plucked out of the proverbial by some activist somewhere, and the meme has been reproduced ever since. Both the mentions I heard in the past few days were on Radio 4.

I expect the figure will double or triple soon. And 'sources' based on framed questionnaires may well appear.

@Greenandcabbagelooking

It's Schools Diversity Week this week. There has been no mention of any kind of diversity other than LGBTQIA+. Heavy on the T. We've been reminded every day for weeks about this.

Today's update says Joan of Arc was trans because she didn't dress like a woman. There's even a discussion on the pronouns she (sorry, he/they) would have used. Silly me, I though Joan was just a woman who was fed up with the limitations her sex imposed on her. Clearly short hair + trousers = man.

I'm all for showing young people a diverse range of role models, but transing people who lived several hundred years ago is not all that helpful.

Please send your experience directly to Baroness Nicholson - nicholsone@parliamentuk and [email protected]

This is exactly the sort of grass roots story she needs

@peadarm I meant, does the original poster have a source for Schools Diversity Week suggesting that Joan of Arc was trans? I've not been able to find anything.

@DadJoke

Do you have a source for this?

I think it’s probably from Stonewall:

The best estimate at the moment is that around 1 per cent of the population might identify as trans, including people who identify as non-binary. That would mean about 600,000 trans and non-binary people in Britain, out of a population of over 60 million.

www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans#trans-people-britain

However, RMW’s book on trans law has a very different number:

Accurate figures are hard to come by, but a good estimate of the numbers of trans individuals in the population might be between one in two thousand to one in five thousand of the UK population. Such a number means that most of the UK population will not know a trans individual personally, and most small to medium sized employers will not have a trans employee.

So approx 13,000 - 35,000 people.

www.lawbriefpublishing.com/2021/06/free-chapter-from-a-practical-guide-to-transgender-law-by-robin-moira-white-nicola-newbegin/

Numbers seem to change depending on whichever narrative is being pushed.

This seems to have been creeping in more and more - anyone who made attempts to act outside of the 'norms' for their sex being labelled trans. Which by definition means any women having achievements, actions and thoughts that deviated from a relatively narrow path compared to the present day no longer belong to women's history.

Given its a field where you already need to struggle against who determined what was worthy to record and with women placed outside of 'important' events, its one more step to erasure. Is it so hard to believe that women, given the opportunity to have some sort of control over their lives, would take that and take it as women?

I was looking at the news at home for more info. You know what I think. That silence is that people are scared and afraid of being that “one”. But as soon as one speaks out I think more and more will share the same views.

It is always the same. It’s always women getting cancelled and shamed for calling out this nonsense. I am really feeling like men are not too bothered because trans men are not as vocal and trying to encroach in their spaces. I do wonder if this changes, if more men will become more vocal about it. We will see.

Also ladies,

I was watching an interesting documentary about a woman who had a horrible horrible experience as a young woman. It happened in the 19th century in Hungary . She was raped and forced to marry her employer. He was abusive and eventually she ran away with her child and began to live as a man. She started murdering the abusive husbands of women it the town where she was. Women were coming to her and hiring her to kill these men. So she was by no means an Angel.

I think she dressed as a man more so for protection and to disguise herself. But of course.. there was the “we are not sure if she was trans” or how she identified obligatory speech there.

If any woman from any period of time wore trousers then I think she’s going to be transed.

This whole Joan of Arc is trans narrative is based on sexist stereotypes and is offensive and ridiculous. Short hair? Man. Doing anything outside of cooking and cleaning and having babies? A man… I thought we were moving away from gender stereotypes. Yet here we are with such archaic and outdated ideas of what women should do it makes my head ache.

Joan of Arc was punished because she was a woman doing what she was not supposed to. So people are going to argue that part of the reason that she was burned at the stake was not due to her daring to be a woman who went against what society said she should do? She was punished for being a woman who dared speak her mind. Called a witch.

How they can argue she was trans is really beyond me. She never once called herself anything other than a woman.

As usual we don’t listen to women I suppose. A woman can literally tell the world a truth and not be believed. I should not be surprised in a way, but it’s very disheartening that this is happening. I predict there will be more of this as time goes along.

I am really feeling like men are not too bothered because trans men are not as vocal and trying to encroach in their spaces.

It's also because even if they did, it's really not a threat to most men. Because of sex, most transmen do not pose any danger to men, even if they were as pushy and aggressive about it as some TW are towards women.

The net gets wider and wider: I've seen George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans if we want to 'deadname' her) referred to as 'trans' because she used a male pen name.

Wait... so by this logic (which of course has nothing to do with the fact male names got their books published much easier than female names of course) that hateful and bigoted transphobe JK Rowling* is also trans. After all he/she/they have books published under a male name. Maybe he/she/they is gender fluid like Phillipa/Pip Bunce, or Eddie Izzard as they also still use the name JK Rowling.

*not my opinion. I think she's a hero(ine)

In fact, if the average transman insisted on being in a male space, such as a male changing room, prison ward etc, the transman would be the one who was more at risk. Because of the differences between the sexes.

Are we going to have to start defending slurs against radical feminism now as well as protest the transing of historical women?

This isnt debate, its just propaganda 101.

*challenging slurs, not defending them.

@ArabellaScott

An absolute insult. Infuriating.

Agree. I have a slightly famous relative by marriage, who was a female pioneer in a traditionally male field, and I have been waiting for someone to trans her. She came from a Quaker family, and the Quakers believe in equality between men and women , so for her it was a natural way to occupy herself.

I should imagine, that unless she specifically stated that she was really a man, that nobody has the right to assume and run with their assumptions as if they were fact. What next? Queen Elizabeth the first was trans because she made reference to having the heart and stomach of a man? All the children born before about 1850 were non binary because they were kept in dresses with longer hair and bonnets until they were about two? Ridiculous.

@Greenandcabbagelooking would you mind linking the evidence for your assertion? i can't find it anywhere.

Haven't read previous messages as i'm on my lunch break and have very little time on my hands now BUT...

I'm a lesbian and married to my very sexy and extremely butch wife who is 90% of the time seen as trans by other people. She is not trans at all, she just like to dress in what society has decided are men's clothes. She believes people should be able to dress and act how they want and is very and i mean VERY apalled by the fact some people just assume she is trans.

nobody has the right to assume and run with their assumptions as if they were fact.

It seems that you are who you say you are, as long as you're not actually who you say you are. But if you are a woman and say you're a woman, like Joan, well that's open to question.

🙄

[quote DadJoke]@Greenandcabbagelooking would you mind linking the evidence for your assertion? i can't find it anywhere.[/quote]
I don't see why this is so hard to believe. I wouldn't say that universities are full of this kind of thing, but there are certainly some vociferous individuals in history and literature departments who are trying to retrospectively trans historical female figures. I know this because I encounter them in my job. If you google "Joan of Arc trans" plenty of stuff comes up, including a book on the subject. It's hardly surprising if it's filtering down into schools.

Are any teachers to able to share screenshots of the materials schools are being provided with this week for Schools Diversity week? This Joan of Arc wording for example?

Googling seems to indicate that this an initiative from Just Like Us but only schools that have signed up can access the materials.

www.justlikeus.org/schools

[quote DadJoke]@Greenandcabbagelooking would you mind linking the evidence for your assertion? i can't find it anywhere.[/quote]
As I said upthread, I won’t be sharing anything because it would put my job in danger as it it in my work email.

This thread has been very interesting.

@gcacademic Asking for a link is not unreasonable, and I'd expect something like this to come up on a search, which it doesn't. The Schools Diversity Week website doesn't mention Joan of Arc at all. The OP suggested it was attached to Schools Diversity week.

There is a big difference between the organisers doing this and a random school or reddit.

It is really upsetting to me that one of my grown-up daughters prioritises trans rights over women's rights, and won't even concede that it is unfair for transwomen to compete with born women (I refuse to say cis). I bought her a Ladybird book about Joan of Arc when she was little and I wonder what she'd make of this (but, of course, I don't dare ask)! Why do women have to be afraid of expressing themselves all of a sudden, even to their own children? It makes me want to cry.....