So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

[StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]

So we now have

Feminist Chat (which was our space anyway)

Sex and gender debate

If they had to go ahead with this spineless nonsense plan, many of us on the preferred names thread suggested it was essential to include feminism in the naughty step topic. You cannot take the debate on sex/gender away from feminism.

I think my suggestion was:

Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

LibFem

So not only are they ignoring us and forging ahead with this crap, they've removed any relationship to feminism and women from the subtopic name.

Absolutely disgusted. This feels so reminiscent of the erasure of the word 'women' in so many contexts. To take the word feminist out of this subtopic- @MNHQ can you explain this? Because it's awful.

@LoverOfLight I'm actually 😂 at me being 'disingenuous' when you said 'I'm glad of the separation and why should feminism need to be in the title'- I took from that that you don't believe the debate on sex and gender is inherent to feminism- what else was i supposed to get from you suggesting that feminism shouldn't be in the title?

Oh and also "It wouldn't be controversial if..." statements don't negate the fact that it is objectively controversial.

The note from MNHQ was quite clear. The board named Sex and Gender debate is for the major debate going on about the GRA, the single sex exceptions and the topics directly linked to that debate.

Extrapolating that this big subject area getting it's own topic in the feminism area and there is another board for other topics means anyone believes sex or gender is irrelevant to feminism is silly. As are all the insults about frilly pink feminism. The deliberate what "is a woman" posting is also silly.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

The disingenuous part that is so hilar to you was you saying to me, along the lines of "so sex and gender has nothing to do with feminism?"

It's a fucking board title. You are not aiding the cause by moaning about a board title lacking the word "feminist". I'm glad you are in a position where you feel like you're doing the good lord's work by doing so though.

Evasive? You stated it's a controversial topic and my brain cannot do the mental gymnastics involved to figure out how it is controversial- for the majority of us on this thread (although I'm guessing perhaps not you) to believe that women's sex based rights, sex and gender, are inherent to feminism, that biological sex is impossible to change.

Hi all. We considered Feminism - sex and gender but rejected it because Google doesn't like long titles for search purposes and second because it. However you'll notice the url of this topic is women's rights and that it is housed in the Feminism and women's rights category.

I'm glad you are in a position where you feel like you're doing the good lord's work by doing so though.

Maybe not 'the good lord'- I'm not religious.

I do believe in science though.

Feminism: Sex-based Rights and Protections for women and girls.

That’s what it should be called, as that would be entirely accurate.

Well I signed up to Mumsnet premium to support the site when it was heavily implied they were losing advertising due to negative publicity around this board (as well as covid) and to avoid being beholden to those complaints.
This move shows they are happy to acquiesce to those complaints so I've gone ahead and cancelled my subscription.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind considering you collectively agreed on this thread that it's good that Mumsnet even let you have this debate because it's banned on many other sites - and I know the majority are familiar with the huge controversies on social media regarding the GRA and TERFs and JK Rowling and allll that, I find it very difficult believe that you are suffering with your mental gymnastics there. Barely a mental touching of the toes is required to understand that this topic is controversial.

@Ninkanink

Feminism: Sex-based Rights and Protections for women and girls.

That’s what it should be called, as that would be entirely accurate.

It would be rubbish for search purposes though.

Oh yikes

Lovely neon signpost with welcome mat for monitors!

I have no idea how you can talk about feminism without touching on gender role (sex role).

I also don't know how the overlap is going to work. On many threads they go on for ages and then someone mentions eg stats being wonky. They are going to get loads of reports.

The other option is just for everyone to post everything on here.

It's a bit ironic that the judgement on the Forstater case led to a) no updating of the Roolz and b) kettling into a little corner.

Women, know your place.

So we can't wonder how on earth it has become 'controversial' to state that it's impossible to change biological sex? To wonder what on earth is happening when JKR received such vile abuse for saying that women have periods?

@CheeryTreeBlossom

Well I signed up to Mumsnet premium to support the site when it was heavily implied they were losing advertising due to negative publicity around this board (as well as covid) and to avoid being beholden to those complaints. This move shows they are happy to acquiesce to those complaints so I've gone ahead and cancelled my subscription.

We've listened to other users (not random outsiders) about the FWR boards . We haven't censored, siloed or shut down the conversation. We've simply renamed a topic in a way that's effective for google and explains what it's about. It seemed a reasonable accommodation for Mumsnetters who have different views on the trans issue found FWR unwelcoming. Meantime we will continue to allow this conversation at substantial financial loss. Those are the facts.

Sex Based Rights wouldn't be any longer than Sex & Gender Debate would it?

It's not like something couldn't have been thought up that was both short enough and the women that use the board could be happy enough with.

@Clymene

It's a bit ironic that the judgement on the Forstater case led to a) no updating of the Roolz and b) kettling into a little corner.

Women, know your place.

What corner though? It's one of two topics in the Feminism and Women's Rights section - and the one with by far the most threads, which will attract by far the most search traffic.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind - you can? On the sex and gender debate board?

Since there is a blue poster here maybe they can clarify that because, maybe I'm ignorant but, my understanding is that it's a very simple division of topics:

Normal feminism board = any issues that affect women and girls and feminism except for sex and gender debate.

Sex and gender debate - any posts specifically for debating the issues between current social understandings of the perceived differences (or not, if you fall on that side of it) between sex and gender identity. Therefore any threads relating to "trans issues" in terms of transgender identity and anything to do with the GRA would go there. Under the feminism topic.

#Silenced, right?

Why not

Women’s rights

Or sex based rights

?

@OvaHere

Sex Based Rights wouldn't be any longer than Sex & Gender Debate would it?

It's not like something couldn't have been thought up that was both short enough and the women that use the board could be happy enough with.

Yes I agree it's not longer and would have been a viable alternative but I'm not sure everyone would have been entirely happy with that given the conversation I've seen... and we thought it would be clearer to use the word debate.

It seemed a reasonable accommodation for Mumsnetters who have different views on the trans issue found FWR unwelcoming.

But how was it actually unwelcoming? Nobody has to read any threads that they don't want to, anyone could have posted on whatever topic around feminism that they liked. And the split really has shown just how many threads were started on other topics?

If FWR was unwelcoming, what on earth is AIBU? Do Mumsnet have plans to make AIBU more welcoming?

Appreciate the response though because it's definitely felt lacking, after the long threads around naming the subtopics for example.

Yes I agree it's not longer and would have been a viable alternative

It gets my vote

I really dislike current version

Agree with Marsha.

@Clymene

It's a bit ironic that the judgement on the Forstater case led to a) no updating of the Roolz and b) kettling into a little corner.

Women, know your place.

No new rules because (unlike most places) we'd already taken the view that discussion of sex-based rights wasn't transphobic. The consolidation of the forum topics we'd been planning anyway - as we are consolidating across multiple categories to make the site easier to navigate and better for Search purposes. The renaming of topics, as said, was in response to user feedback - obviously not regular FWR users but there are many others.