So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

[StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind]

So we now have

Feminist Chat (which was our space anyway)

Sex and gender debate

If they had to go ahead with this spineless nonsense plan, many of us on the preferred names thread suggested it was essential to include feminism in the naughty step topic. You cannot take the debate on sex/gender away from feminism.

I think my suggestion was:

Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

LibFem

So not only are they ignoring us and forging ahead with this crap, they've removed any relationship to feminism and women from the subtopic name.

Absolutely disgusted. This feels so reminiscent of the erasure of the word 'women' in so many contexts. To take the word feminist out of this subtopic- @MNHQ can you explain this? Because it's awful.

*users' wishes

I don't agree. As a feminist without the trans debate at the forefront of her mind, it was disheartening to see a feminist board filled almost exclusively with trans/gender theory issues. Especially as it is such a popular and active site.

It's not "your" space in the sense you can pick and choose the subjects, and if a board that is supposed to represent a multitude of issues becomes the platform for one specific issue within that topic, it makes sense to have a clearer platform to discuss just that topic. They do it quite frequently.

Sex and gender debate sums up exactly what is constantly discussed so I don't see any issue in it.

I feel that any Section with "Sex" as the first word in its title is sure to attract a large amount of unwanted and inappropriate traffic from new posters, especially late at night and in the school holidays!
Whoever decided on this title wasn't thinking ahead.

I like the Naughty Step!

It's not "your" space in the sense you can pick and choose the subjects, and if a board that is supposed to represent a multitude of issues becomes the platform for one specific issue within that topic, it makes sense to have a clearer platform to discuss just that topic.

Agree

Can we be House of Heretics in here?

Was the question about how Maya's new ruling might change moderation rules on here ever addressed?

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

To be fair, MNHQ have allowed a debate for years which has been banned almost anywhere else. It’s cost them time and anguish and probably money. And without them I don’t think we have made the progress we have. So I don’t think we should lambast them too much.

I wonder how this myth started.

I speak much much more freely on YouTube, Facebook and Twitter than here.
Of course there are certain words to avoid but here there are HUGE areas that must never be discussed and can get strikes for saying anagrams of paek and clut etc.

Here because of the amazing women with huge amounts of knowledge and experience, plus all the other boards, but mainly because it is a female dominated space. It's never been true that is only place to speak about this issue and even more places have sprung up in last few years.

Most of us are here because of the other users not because of the site itself. MN need to keep that in mind.

@LoverOfLight

I don't agree. As a feminist without the trans debate at the forefront of her mind, it was disheartening to see a feminist board filled almost exclusively with trans/gender theory issues. Especially as it is such a popular and active site.

It's not "your" space in the sense you can pick and choose the subjects, and if a board that is supposed to represent a multitude of issues becomes the platform for one specific issue within that topic, it makes sense to have a clearer platform to discuss just that topic. They do it quite frequently.

Sex and gender debate sums up exactly what is constantly discussed so I don't see any issue in it.

Well I'm glad (genuinely! ) if it does bring in more debate from posters who've kept away. As you can see there are tons on threads on there that weren't deemed "sex and gender"-esque enough to be moved over, so I'm a bit at the idea no-one could find anything else to discuss.

And people are still hiding both sections, because they don't trust people to post in the correct section, so I'm not sure what it has achieved, but genuinely happy if it benefits good-faith discussion.

Was the question about how Maya's new ruling might change moderation rules on here ever addressed*?

@Mumsnet?

LoverOfLight
I don't agree. As a feminist without the trans debate at the forefront of her mind, it was disheartening to see a feminist board filled almost exclusively with trans/gender theory issues. Especially as it is such a popular and active site

As we've all said many times, you are free to start a thread on anything that you find relevant, you are free to reply to anything you want and you are free to scroll past anything that doesn't interest you. It's a bit churlish to complain that a newsworthy topic is very popular.
It's a bit like saying "why are the 1-20 best seller lists full of the 20 books that sell the most? Why don't they put books that sell less in the best seller lists?"

@LoverOfLight did you not understand my thread title?

My point was that if Mumsnet wanted to split the boards, why have they so blatantly ignored the many posters who were asking for 'feminism' or 'women' to be included in the new board title? Like the suggestion of Feminism- women's sex based rights.

You said 'It's not "your" space in the sense you can pick and choose the subjects'- well you were always free to start threads on any topics you like, and as many people have pointed out, if no one posted about anything other than trans issues, why are there so many threads in the other topic? But as you say, just as it's not for us to pick and choose all of the subjects which I wasn't aware we ever were doing, it's not your place to decide who is the right kind of feminist and whether or not sex/gender issues are inherent to feminism. Hint: they are.

@WanderinWomb I'm not complaining that the the threads are there though, I'm just commenting that it makes sense to me to have done what has been done. I did say I'm glad to see that there's a separate topic between feminism and sex/gender debate, but it's not meant in the same way as a complaint. Mumsnet do in my experience create separate spaces for popular topics, so I don't think there is anything inherently disingenuous or disrespectful about what they have done. And yes, it does suit my personal preference based on my interests in feminism but that's not the only point of my comment.

it was disheartening to see a feminist board filled almost exclusively with trans/gender theory issues. Especially as it is such a popular and active site

If this were true the new FemChat board would be mostly devoid of threads. Strangely there seem to be rather a lot of them...

'Naughty feminists step up.'

if a board that is supposed to represent a multitude of issues becomes the platform for one specific issue within that topic, it makes sense to have a clearer platform to discuss just that topic.

Best have a separate MIL topic from AIBU then.

And btw it was never a platform for one specific issue within the topic. As we have pointed out time and time again- there were threads on the old board on every single aspect of feminism you can imagine, and anyone was free to start threads on topics that were of interest to them.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind Maybe I should clarify - my point was I don't agree it's problematic. I'm glad of the separation and why should feminism need to be in the title? No need to be so mad at a difference of opinion. Sex and gender debate is the literal topic, and is named as such. And if it's a debate, it's not necessary to specify feminism because it is a debateable subject.

It just feels a bit self indulgent to complain that feminism isn't in the very accurate title of the board.

@LoverOfLight

I don't agree. As a feminist without the trans debate at the forefront of her mind, it was disheartening to see a feminist board filled almost exclusively with trans/gender theory issues. Especially as it is such a popular and active site.

It's not "your" space in the sense you can pick and choose the subjects, and if a board that is supposed to represent a multitude of issues becomes the platform for one specific issue within that topic, it makes sense to have a clearer platform to discuss just that topic. They do it quite frequently.

Sex and gender debate sums up exactly what is constantly discussed so I don't see any issue in it.

Agree

So @LoverOfLight what you are saying there is that sex and gender issues are irrelevant to feminism, have I got that correct?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Best have a separate MIL topic from AIBU then.

That's a bit disingenuous. My point was it's not uncommon for MN to create new boards for a a frequently discussed niche topic, not that is was necessary.

Yes there were threads on the old board about more than just trans stuff. Don't think anyone can pretend there was anything close to an even split of trans vs non trans threads in recent months though. Hence the perfectly reasonable creation of another space? Especially since you can hardly pretend it's not a controversial subject.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

what you are saying there is that sex and gender issues are irrelevant to feminism, have I got that correct?

Your comments are so disingenuous. Do I need to explain to you that there is a difference between topics or issues that relate to sex and the sex and gender debate in and of itself? I don't believe for a second that you cannot make that distinction.

If we were at a stage where women didn't have the vote in the UK and the feminism boards were dominated by suffragist discussion would MNHQ hive that out of feminism? Because the gender critical debate is as significant to feminism now as suffragism was then.

Especially since you can hardly pretend it's not a controversial subject

Well I do wonder how as a society we've got to the point where stating that women have periods and it's impossible to change biological sex is 'controversial', but there we go. That women having access to safe spaces from biological males, not competing against biological males in sport, is controversial.

It's only controversial because some people think that women existing in science and law is now controversial.

Women's rights and our existence is hardly a niche topic.

Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Yes please

No idea why they are so closed on this - loads of requests on other thread

Well, the remarkable speed of MN's response to that new Site Stuff post about hiding threads leaves me personally in no doubt about their disingenuousnous and lack of respect towards those who didn't ask for and don't want the split.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind Your response is evasive and hasn't addressed anything I've said to you.

Feminism is a niche topic in that it has it's own board, emotively talking about "our existence" to another feminist is just an attempt at obfuscating my pretty simple point.