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Original poster

So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

12 replies

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 21/06/2021 16:16

So we now have

Feminist Chat (which was our space anyway)

Sex and gender debate

If they had to go ahead with this spineless nonsense plan, many of us on the preferred names thread suggested it was essential to include feminism in the naughty step topic. You cannot take the debate on sex/gender away from feminism.

I think my suggestion was:

Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

LibFem

So not only are they ignoring us and forging ahead with this crap, they've removed any relationship to feminism and women from the subtopic name.

Absolutely disgusted. This feels so reminiscent of the erasure of the word 'women' in so many contexts. To take the word feminist out of this subtopic- @MNHQ can you explain this? Because it's awful.

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MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 19:58

Hi all. We considered Feminism - sex and gender but rejected it because Google doesn't like long titles for search purposes and second because it. However you'll notice the url of this topic is women's rights and that it is housed in the Feminism and women's rights category.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:04

@Ninkanink

Feminism: Sex-based Rights and Protections for women and girls.

That’s what it should be called, as that would be entirely accurate.

It would be rubbish for search purposes though.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:08

@CheeryTreeBlossom

Well I signed up to Mumsnet premium to support the site when it was heavily implied they were losing advertising due to negative publicity around this board (as well as covid) and to avoid being beholden to those complaints. This move shows they are happy to acquiesce to those complaints so I've gone ahead and cancelled my subscription.
We've listened to other users (not random outsiders) about the FWR boards . We haven't censored, siloed or shut down the conversation. We've simply renamed a topic in a way that's effective for google and explains what it's about. It seemed a reasonable accommodation for Mumsnetters who have different views on the trans issue found FWR unwelcoming. Meantime we will continue to allow this conversation at substantial financial loss. Those are the facts.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:09

@Clymene

It's a bit ironic that the judgement on the Forstater case led to a) no updating of the Roolz and b) kettling into a little corner.

Women, know your place.

What corner though? It's one of two topics in the Feminism and Women's Rights section - and the one with by far the most threads, which will attract by far the most search traffic.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:12

@OvaHere

Sex Based Rights wouldn't be any longer than Sex & Gender Debate would it?

It's not like something couldn't have been thought up that was both short enough and the women that use the board could be happy enough with.

Yes I agree it's not longer and would have been a viable alternative but I'm not sure everyone would have been entirely happy with that given the conversation I've seen... and we thought it would be clearer to use the word debate.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:17

@Clymene

It's a bit ironic that the judgement on the Forstater case led to a) no updating of the Roolz and b) kettling into a little corner.

Women, know your place.

No new rules because (unlike most places) we'd already taken the view that discussion of sex-based rights wasn't transphobic. The consolidation of the forum topics we'd been planning anyway - as we are consolidating across multiple categories to make the site easier to navigate and better for Search purposes. The renaming of topics, as said, was in response to user feedback - obviously not regular FWR users but there are many others.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:20

@MarshaBradyo

Yes I agree it's not longer and would have been a viable alternative

It gets my vote

I really dislike current version

The problem with this title I think is that it's effectively saying if you don't believe in sex-based rights then you're unwelcome in this topic. We didn't want to split feminism based on belief but rather on subject matter (as I've said all along) still believe strongly (and I know many will disagree) that we need to be inclusive and respectful - whilst absolutely having the right to disagree with others' opinions.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:21

@LoverOfLight

Why would Sex Based Rights be a good indicator of what the topic is about? It may sum up what the topic represents to you but, sex based rights are not exclusive to the sex and gender debate, and the sex and gender debate is not wholly encompassed by sex based rights. It makes no sense.
Agreed - you said it better than me to be honest.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/06/2021 20:22

@GreenWhiteViolet

Yes I agree it's not longer and would have been a viable alternative but I'm not sure everyone would have been entirely happy with that given the conversation I've seen... and we thought it would be clearer to use the word debate.

Respectfully, a lot of posters are not at all happy with the new name. Nothing is going to make everyone 'entirely happy' but the current choice seems to go very much against the desires of the vast majority here. Why are the views of people who don't use the section taking precedence?

The vast majority on FWR maybe - although I stress again that we have not silenced or siloed anyone! - but not a majority of Mumsnet users, from what I see.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 22/06/2021 09:31

@OldLang

Quite sinister to mention finances actually.

'W*men' toe the line because we're losing money in the name of your limited freedom to discuss issues deeply relevant to your lives.

Or did I misunderstand that @MNHQ?

Sinister? I'm just trying to be honest with you. There's a reason why other platforms have stopped housing this debate and it is because of finances - it costs them money - in terms of lost ad revenue, resources to moderate and the cost of staff upset/recruitment. There's also an unknown reputational cost.
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 22/06/2021 09:34

So after some rechecking on the long title thing it turns out we were mistaken (thanks Empress) - it's not long names that are an issue it's long urls - crossed wires here. So we've reverted to Feminism: Sex and gender debate and Feminism: Chat as the two topic names.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 22/06/2021 10:26

Ok to be clear, so we can draw a line (hopefully!) - we're going to keep debate to help it be distinguished from the other forum.

On stats for FWR - someone suggested we're disingenuous about financial loss involved in hosting FWR because of the amount of traffic it generates. Here are the stats year to date:
FWR accounted 2.49% of page views on Mumsnet. And ranks 20th out of our forums for landing pages from search.

Watch this thread for updates

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