Pronoun badges for train staff and mis-gendering passengers

[CervixSampler]

Trans woman 'repeatedly misgendered' by Northern Rail worker at Piccadilly https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/trans-woman-hits-out-after-20829187

This article doesn't say if they have a GRC but they have legally changed their name. Lots of information in this with talk of white privilege, mental health being affected by mis-gendering but in light of the Maya ruling last week I'm wondering if staff can be forced to use pronouns that don't match what they see? To use Sir and he then the staff must have seen a male despite the facial surgery, acrylic nails, bra under their top land ponytail. I really struggle when things don't match as it were and my brain just can't compute it (awaiting ASD assessment) It's like a trans Stroop test. Just because I see a pony tail, long nails, and feminine facial features it doesn't mean that I will see a woman if other factors say male. Height, build, mannerisms, speech, voice, gait etc would all be interpreted as male and counter any feminine dressing and make up on the surface.

I don’t see why people shouldn’t be expected to use pronouns if on badges (maybe excepting 80 year olds with poor eyesight). Not a direct comparison but I wear the baby on board badge when I don’t look remotely pregnant, and don’t expect people to challenge whether I’m just wearing a badge to get a seat (although it has happened)

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

This is why I don't like this kind of journalism as it sets up the person for nasty comments by the public. Saying that, either the regulars of get have all name changed at the same time, or we've an influx of new posters who seem to have all decided to post on this story. Strange. Either way, personal comments are uncalled for. Eden absolutely wasn't harming anyone. The member of staff is being investigated so hopefully they will get to the bottom of it.

Yes, it's all a bit suss isn't it?

@Torvean

Two sides to every story. If the train worker only glanced but heard a male voice , its easy to see why he would say Sir. I'm getting fed of up of the ppl claiming abuse when it was an error.

I get misgendered, it happens once then they look at me and correct themselves. So i do agree that it happens by accident

If it was once and Eden explained then thats an error, maybe even twice. More than that is rude

Assuming obviously that Eden is telling the truth, I am fairly sure that if the ticket inspector came on here first and said he only did it once then we’d believe him

Most people on here go on face value, obviously every single person on here could be lying but we believe the initial report otherwise there would be nothing to discuss

I’m not sure events went down exactly how this was described.

Sorry.

I would like to hear the other side of this story.

And I am a woman of the knackered, haggard,cynical ‘experience’.

My bra is not in question.

@Maskless

Perhaps all passengers should be required to wear pronoun badges?

Oh God, please dont even joke about it. You know someone will latch on to that idea and start campaigning.

But did Eden explain? Or did they simply say "Miss! She!" Why does Eden expect everyone to be aware of, understand and accept trans ideology?

@JellySlice

But did Eden explain? Or did they simply say "Miss! She!" Why does Eden expect everyone to be aware of, understand and accept trans ideology?

That's some reach there. You don't need to be aware of, "understand and accept trans ideology" to call someone "Miss" if that is what they asked.

@Wanttocry

Lots of information in this with talk of white privilege, mental health being affected by mis-gendering but in light of the Maya ruling last week I'm wondering if staff can be forced to use pronouns that don't match what they see?

I believe the judgement specifically said that the ruling did not mean that people were therefore free to misgender people.

Exactly. It's like it has empowered many on this board to purposely misgender trans women.

If you are knowingly misgendering someone, you're making a personal attack and being a pathetic bully.

I believe the judgement specifically said that the ruling did not mean that people were therefore free to misgender people

I don't think it means that people are compelled to actively participate in and validate an ideology that is not compatible with their own beliefs either.

Empowered many on this board to purposefully misgender

I disagree. I can't see one regular username wilfully misgender. The few fwr regulars on this thread have called it out as transphobia.

What the judgement seems to have done is attracted a whole lot of New posters, claiming to be GC, who are obviously just here to post transphobic things. Either because they are bigots, or because they want to create a certain optic on the fwr board.
I've been on here for a while now, and I've never seen a board quite like this. It's attacking an individual for how they look, it's misgendering an individual left right and centre. Posts and threads like that are usually not encouraged and often deleted or piled upon for being bang out of order (a more recent one was one targeting a trans referee where the person in question was largely supported because they were not encroaching on women's spaces. The op got ripped a new one) Fwr users are usually very thoughtful in the way they put things. These posts are clumsily hateful. Fwr don't condone transphobia. We're pro women's rights. This is just odd (and nasty)
Anyway, I think the personal comments are not on and so I am reporting the thread.

There does seem to be a large amount lot of new posters here. Either that or a mass name change going on. 🤔 Maybe @mnhq could comment on that.

If you are knowingly misgendering someone, you're making a personal attack and being a pathetic bully.

No. You’re resisting an attempt to bully you into playing along with an ideology that you see as a threat to your rights.

There is no need to misgender. A name check would suffice.

I'm picturing the ticket checker as a 50 something guy who literally had no clue what the problem was.

So, as soon as people hit 50 they become clueless about gender issues? I don't think so. Unless you live with a complete absence of newspapers, TV and internet, it's highly unlikely you'd be unaware that transpeople prefer the pronouns of their transitioned gender to be used.

@Erikrie

Why? Why is the member of staff compelled to participate in Eden's fantasy

This is a fair point.

As has been already pointed out on the thread, if the station staff had an ideological reason for not using Eden's preferred pronouns, they could easily have avoided this by addressing her as 'Eden' and referring to her as 'this customer' or similar.

There was no need to go on and on using a form of address that was clearly unwelcome/offensive/upsetting.

Because it would be used in place of ma'am or sir, which I believe are the words Eden took offense to.
I can see using she or he would be more difficult to navigate, but that's not what the problem was presented as.

Do you know how many people don't read the guardian? They read the Sun, and even then just the sports pages for some of them!

I've just googled 'The Sun transwomen' and got pages of results, including stories about trans-related controversies as well as life-story features.