Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

@ScreamingMeMe

I can only imagine it is because there is an orchestrated campaign bombarding MNHQ with complaints.

This sort of thing always ratchets up when we get a "win", so I wouldn't be surprised.

Of course it's because of that. And MNHQ is either being incredibly naive (if they think that the complaints stop just because we talk about the issue under a different headline) or this is a step towards removing gc topics completely.

I would also like to know: if we are to be corralled into our own little reservation, will the nebulous but strict 'rules' change to allow free speech? Or shall our reservation continue to be policed for every little thing that might make a gender special person feel awkward.

I'm going to request that MNHQ split AIBU into separate topics.
There's so much antagonism and outright hostility there that I don't feel safe posting.
I won't start a thread though or use Site Stuff. I will send a private email as that is clearly the way to get things done.

Yep @Floisme, I'm going to email Mumsnet and ask for a MIL topic as all of the threads on MIL's really upset me. And a separate topic for posters who hate summer, I really love summer and find it really upsetting to see all the threads moaning about hot weather.

I still don’t get why mnhq used a request that wasn’t related to this to make these changes.

I can see some pp invested in monitoring

@Snakebyte

Mumsnet - could we discuss the names of the new subtopics her before a final decision is made so that we can have a say?

How about:

Feminism: Sex and Gender discussion
Feminism chat

What do others think of the above? It is important for users to have the word Feminism is the new subtopic.

I would prefer feminism in title too

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Why is language only allowed to be important to one group of people- and never women? For Mumsnet to now be going down this route and perhaps removing 'Feminism' from the name of of discussion board, it feels to me the same as when 'women' is removed from sanitary products, NHS literature etc. I wouldn't have expected this from Mumsnet which is why I'm so pissed off with it too.

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Yes something with feminism and women in it. Honestly how hard is it to keep this centred on women. It’s why we all talk about it keep it in

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Perfect.

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

I'd agree with this title as well.

It's dishonest of MNHQ to claim they are not hiving us off whilst actually hiving us off, why would they propose a board title which removes all mention of feminism if that was not the intention. I'm surprised by this proposal, I would have thought MN had been navigating this issue for long enough to know they are being played.

This process of edging out feminists who want to discuss how to protect our rights has been going on since I first found MN. MNHQ have tried to cultivate sympathy from users whilst capitulating to the demands of people who monitor but do not and do not want to actively engage in discussion. I see posters on the feminism board who express gratitude that MN even allow us to have this conversation, I understand why, where else can we go but I lost faith in the argument that they are trying to make space for all voices to be heard; there is nothing an expert in safeguarding has to say which should result in a ban. Any respect or sympathy I had for MN and the challenges they face in hosting this conversation evaporated when that happened, it was cowardly and they know the non participating monitors were crowing about it all over social media and are already celebrating this "victory" in their campaign ton silence us.

Whatever they name the new board it MUST include the word feminism. It's already been suggested by a PP; Feminism and Women's Rights and Feminist Chat could work. I think we should try to agree amongst ourselves and offer a more palatable compromise to MNHQ if they are determined to "not" hive us off into some dark corner.

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Agreed. Perfect title.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Feminism has to be in the new title. I want: Feminism: Women's Sex Based Rights

Why is language only allowed to be important to one group of people- and never women? For Mumsnet to now be going down this route and perhaps removing 'Feminism' from the name of of discussion board, it feels to me the same as when 'women' is removed from sanitary products, NHS literature etc. I wouldn't have expected this from Mumsnet which is why I'm so pissed off with it too.

I think that’s perfect too.

@Arbadacarba

I welcome the idea, and I think Justine's explanations on the other thread are balanced and reasonable.

Yes so do I (and I am gender critical)

Feminism and Women's Rights and Feminist Chat

This is good.

Feminism and Women's Rights and Feminist Chat

A vote from me for this too

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I'm honestly racking my brains to think of feminist issues with no relationship to sex and gender. I just keep thinking of 'the prism of sex', 'sex, race and class' etc which really do explore why sex/gender have an impact on women's oppression or position in society.

You know that feminism existed before trans did, yes?

The very fact that you see feminism as a one subject issue makes the need to separate the boards even more evident. Maybe then people will discuss those other issues more often.

It does make me laugh that, even though we're angry, here we are suggesting names for the new thread. That's women for you

Sorry, it's not for a new thread is it - new topic.

I've started a new thread to collect all our suggestions in one place.

You know that feminism existed before trans did, yes?

She didn't mention trans. She was talking about sex and gender. It's you who seems to have converted that to a one subject issue.

@saraclara
You are the one seeing feminism a single topic not SuperLoud. Not all discussions involving sex and gender are about trans.

FGM is about sex and social perceptions of women. Women being paid less than men and being regarded as pushy if the ask for a pay rise is linked to regressive gender stereotypes. Women being judged on appearance rather than ability - gender stereotypes. etc.

It’s misleading to try and try to characterise all discussions involving sex and gender as trans discussions. It could lead to very important discussions being marginalised.

@MarshaBradyo

Feminism and Women's Rights and Feminist Chat

A vote from me for this too

Yes I would be happy with a return to FWR. Would also be okay with Feminism and Women's Sex Based Rights if HQ wanted to be more specific.

Cheers, Chaz.
Yeah as above - feminism is not about one topic but the overarching theme is women's experiences of life as a particular sex class or because of particular (culturally specific) gender roles.
And for myself, intersecting issues and barriers in relation to other aspects of identity.

Watch out for naked flames near those straw feminists you're constructing.

I very rarely talk about trans issues, honestly.
Neither do the women I mentioned above-in their work, anyway.
I talk about sex and gender nearly all the time.

I don't understand how they can sensibly be separated.

Take this thread:

Woman arrested "had intially been mistaken for a man" www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4271775-Woman-arrested-had-intially-been-mistaken-for-a-man

Is this a "GC" story? Or about violence against women? Or about rubbish police response?

Is it of interest to all women whatever your views about certain issues?

I see no reason why it should be swept away to a hidden corner away from general view.

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now. Could you stop that lie?

It's about womens rights. You have been told that countless times. But your agenda doesn't allow you to listen, does it?

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t. I don't want to discus 'trans issues'. If I never have to mention them ever again I would be immensely happy. But until TRAs, and their allies, start behaving honestly, then any talk about womens rights will , of necessity, have to include 'trans issues'.

When the matter of my sex is no longer considered something to be worn, a costume, a choice, I will stop posting about 'trans issues. Until then you can be very sure I will carry on posting about womens rights and pointing out your deliberate obfuscations!