Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

@MarshaBradyo

Feminism and Women's Rights and Feminist Chat

A vote from me for this too

And from me!

@jellybeansforbreakfast

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now. Could you stop that lie?

It's about womens rights. You have been told that countless times. But your agenda doesn't allow you to listen, does it?

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t. I don't want to discus 'trans issues'. If I never have to mention them ever again I would be immensely happy. But until TRAs, and their allies, start behaving honestly, then any talk about womens rights will , of necessity, have to include 'trans issues'.

When the matter of my sex is no longer considered something to be worn, a costume, a choice, I will stop posting about 'trans issues. Until then you can be very sure I will carry on posting about womens rights and pointing out your deliberate obfuscations!

It is though, I did a tally last night. 37 out of the 50 threads were trans related.

So if you want to discuss feminism and trans issues, there’ll be a new board for that.

The very fact that you see feminism as a one subject issue makes the need to separate the boards even more evident. Maybe then people will discuss those other issues more often.

As has been pointed out countless times, there is aboslutely no reason why "people" cannot discuss those other issues now. If "people" don't start threads on other subjects, that's up to them.

Oh great, are we going to have another 7 page derail of language used? 🙄

I can only imagine that the new 'general' feminism board will be hoaching with all these people so put off by the chat on the current board that they felt the only way to address it was to email Mumsnet directly. So far we've had a possibility of a thread about the gender pay gap and...

@Waitwhat23

Oh great, are we going to have another 7 page derail of language used? 🙄

I can only imagine that the new 'general' feminism board will be hoaching with all these people so put off by the chat on the current board that they felt the only way to address it was to email Mumsnet directly. So far we've had a possibility of a thread about the gender pay gap and...

Everyday sexism? Eating disorders? Peer pressure?

I am getting seriously pissed off with people that whinge about there not being any threads they want to discuss, when they could just simply start a thread on that topic and respond to the posts they like whilst ignoring any perceived derailing. It's what everyone else does that regularly posts. I hide threads that wind me up, or just scroll on by. None of this is difficult. Yet apparently these people are able to demand that people who do post are hidden away and instead they are the only ones who should be able to use the main Feminist Chat section - even though they never actually post anything or contribute constructively to existing threads! It's ridiculous.

I was prepared to see if there was an understandable reasoning for these demands, but it's just plain wrong.

AssassinatedBeauty I agree.

@AssassinatedBeauty

I am getting seriously pissed off with people that whinge about there not being any threads they want to discuss, when they could just simply start a thread on that topic and respond to the posts they like whilst ignoring any perceived derailing. It's what everyone else does that regularly posts. I hide threads that wind me up, or just scroll on by. None of this is difficult. Yet apparently these people are able to demand that people who do post are hidden away and instead they are the only ones who should be able to use the main Feminist Chat section - even though they never actually post anything or contribute constructively to existing threads! It's ridiculous.

I was prepared to see if there was an understandable reasoning for these demands, but it's just plain wrong.

I don’t think that’s what’s happening though - the feminism/trans discussion will still be the main (and I’d guess more popular) FWR discussion. The other stuff will be shaved off into the much broader feminism topic.

It is though, I did a tally last night. 37 out of the 50 threads were trans related.

So if you want to discuss feminism and trans issues, there’ll be a new board for that.

But why do you think this is, @Pumperthepumper?

I'm really sick of us being labelled transphobes or it being suggested that we only care about trans/gender issues- we're well aware of all the everlasting issues of the pay gap, VAWG, general misogyny and sexism. Don't you think that we'd prefer not to have this fight on our hands as well, just to have our sex based rights- the right to say that women have periods, to see a female HCP, to have safe spaces where biological males aren't allowed? The fight for all those long-standing issues continues and is discussed on here. But this has become a massive issue in recent times- Maya's case shows how serious this has become. And this is Mumsnet- aimed at women with children. And fwiw I think what is being done to this generation of children and teenagers is absolutely disgraceful. We've seen numerous threads about the impact on young, vulnerable people because of trans/gender issues- concerned parents are obviously going to use a site aimed at parents, predominantly women, to discuss these issues- you are going to see a lot of threads on this subject. If children are being taught in school that it's possible to change sex that is a massive massive issue.

First bit should have been bold

@Pumperthepumper as I said, presumably the new general board will be full of threads started by yourself and the other posters on this thread who have commented things like 'good' or 'about time too'. Because the only reason they haven't so far is because they've felt put off by the 'trans' discussions, right?

Pumper, unless it's moved down a page, you are responsible for at least one of those 37 because your derailing of the Maya thread about trans linguistics, meant a linguistics trans thread was started to divert the discussion there.
You claimed you were interested in that discussion, which I believe because you did join the thread. You then proceeded to ignore points you didn't like about the Plain English campaign and vulnerable groups to double down on your own question of what new 'language' was acceptable.

So it's a bit hypocritical to tell others not to talk about trans stuff, when you kept that thread on the trans track. There was the possibility it might have evolved into a general discussion and language and feminism if you hadn't kept asking people their personal feelings about being called a.menstruater as some kind of point.

[quote Waitwhat23]@Pumperthepumper as I said, presumably the new general board will be full of threads started by yourself and the other posters on this thread who have commented things like 'good' or 'about time too'. Because the only reason they haven't so far is because they've felt put off by the 'trans' discussions, right?[/quote]
I didn’t say any of those things.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

Pumper, unless it's moved down a page, you are responsible for at least one of those 37 because your derailing of the Maya thread about trans linguistics, meant a linguistics trans thread was started to divert the discussion there. You claimed you were interested in that discussion, which I believe because you did join the thread. You then proceeded to ignore points you didn't like about the Plain English campaign and vulnerable groups to double down on your own question of what new 'language' was acceptable.

So it's a bit hypocritical to tell others not to talk about trans stuff, when you kept that thread on the trans track. There was the possibility it might have evolved into a general discussion and language and feminism if you hadn't kept asking people their personal feelings about being called a.menstruater as some kind of point.

That’s not true, as I said several times, I completely understand the need for plain language as someone whose first language isn’t English. I was interested in where the compromise was and language was an example given. And language around sanitary towels specifically. None of that was my idea and it wasn’t my thread. It was the compromise specifically I was interested in.

Well @Pumperthepumper you've said that you don't see what the issue is so presumably you're supportive of the board being split?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

It is though, I did a tally last night. 37 out of the 50 threads were trans related.

So if you want to discuss feminism and trans issues, there’ll be a new board for that.

But why do you think this is, @Pumperthepumper?

I'm really sick of us being labelled transphobes or it being suggested that we only care about trans/gender issues- we're well aware of all the everlasting issues of the pay gap, VAWG, general misogyny and sexism. Don't you think that we'd prefer not to have this fight on our hands as well, just to have our sex based rights- the right to say that women have periods, to see a female HCP, to have safe spaces where biological males aren't allowed? The fight for all those long-standing issues continues and is discussed on here. But this has become a massive issue in recent times- Maya's case shows how serious this has become. And this is Mumsnet- aimed at women with children. And fwiw I think what is being done to this generation of children and teenagers is absolutely disgraceful. We've seen numerous threads about the impact on young, vulnerable people because of trans/gender issues- concerned parents are obviously going to use a site aimed at parents, predominantly women, to discuss these issues- you are going to see a lot of threads on this subject. If children are being taught in school that it's possible to change sex that is a massive massive issue.

Again, it’s not the trans stuff that’s going to a new board, it’s the other stuff that’s being shaved off, so far as I understand it. The trans issues will still be the most popular, I’d imagine.

It was generated by your talking about gender.
Why is no one else allowed to discuss gender, only you?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Well *@Pumperthepumper* you've said that you don't see what the issue is so presumably you're supportive of the board being split?

I’ve no opinion either way. I can see why they want to tidy it up a bit though.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

It was generated by your talking about gender. Why is no one else allowed to discuss gender, only you?

What? I’ll still be able to discuss gender, and so will you, on the FWR board with the rename.

I was interested in where the compromise was and language was an example given. And language around sanitary towels specifically. None of that was my idea and it wasn’t my thread. It was the compromise specifically I was interested in.

And despite posters telling you the language they were happy with, you kept asking what their line' in the sand was, what the compromise should be, even when people had been quite clear about their feelings. What was the point you were trying to make, I wonder?

"The other stuff will be shaved off into the much broader feminism topic."

I don't think that there will be a "broader" feminism topic, it will be narrower and less busy. Which makes me wonder what the point is.

Will the separation of the boards mean that, if some of our regular pigeons come to play chess on the FWR board we'll be able to redirect them to the Be Kind board?

Or will that only work one way, and if any meanie feminists mention anything to do with women's sex-based reality in Be Kind they'll be deleted, while the pigeons and seagulls on FWR will cry 'echo chamber' if the reverse occurs?

I'm struggling to see how this will work. Although the Be Kinders like to express their outrage and disgust, I have a feeling they'd miss playing chess with us. In which case, one board is going to be like Alton Towers and the other like that Mr Blobby theme park Noel Edmonds set up.

Again, it’s not the trans stuff that’s going to a new board, it’s the other stuff that’s being shaved off, so far as I understand it. The trans issues will still be the most popular, I’d imagine.

That doesn't even make sense. It's not even clear what the new boards are going to be called hence there being much discussion and suggestions. Given that suggestions have been made to take the words 'women' and 'feminism' away from any suggestions around trans, gender and and issues, it very much does feel like a denial of the impact of these issues, a denial of how intrinsic they are to feminism and women's rights. They aren't just 'trans issues'- they are issues that have a massive impact on feminism and women's rights so need to be discussed as a mainstream feminist issue and not hived off to some separate area.

@AssassinatedBeauty to my mind, what will happen is the 'general' feminism board may see an initial surge in use (as there may well be some people who don't like the current chat) and will then wane. The 'FWR - women's sex based rights' (as I am choosing to call it) will be seen as a beautifully signposted area for all the people who simply don't want women taking about these issues and will be pointed out as GC views being 'so transphobic that they've had to section them off!'. The sex based rights board will be relentlessly targeted and will then be shut down as there is a general feminist board, which will continue in a toothless version until it sort of dies a death. We then go back to talking about buggies and babies as we 'should'.

My observation was you were moaning there were too many discussions on gender. 37. Yet you were responsible for 3% of them.
And no you didn't start it even though you clearly wanted to discuss it. Which is why I don't have much faith in the non fwr board being suddenly full of spanking new topics.

Same with every other poster who moan about gender but then don't engage with the non gender boards.