Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

I don’t know if Mumsnet know the reach of this FWR

We aren5 all in London and not all of us went to uni or even went more than S4 at school

No one I know thinks TWAW but they are not transphobic bad people they are just ordinary people who see it how it is

It doesn’t really affect most of th3 people I know in their day to day life but we are seeing how it is starting to.

Could say a lot more

But this has been the best education I have ever had right here and has opened my eyes to many things that effect us women and girls

And is thanks to this board and the women on her3

And so I spread it out to my friends and family

And makes me think

Sex/gender board. WTAF will that be about

I have posted similar in the thread in site stuff, but trying to understand from MNHQ perspective:

Is it that there are two boards, but no forcing of perspectives: i.e. liberal feminists, gender critical feminists, transactivists can post in either but:

Board 1 - Feminism, sex and gender would be for OPs on topics like - stonewall, court cases, ROGD, transwomen in women's sport ... issues that have become urgent in feminism in the last few years because of ideologies conflating sex and gender

Board 2 - Feminist Chat would be for OPs on topics like - domestic violence, sex work, workplace equality - issues that have "always been with us", where sex is relevant, but which will persist even after current confusion on sex and gender are resolved.

Then posting from a GC perspective on board 2 is fine, as an honest response to any relevant topic, just as replying from a lib fem or trans activist perspective on 1 is fine. So it's not creating two parties - hence no new "gender crit not welcome" board?

If that's what's planned, I think it could be fine. Current feminism chat is a bit too fast moving sometimes - you get duplicate threads on current events all the time. So splitting across two boards would help that too.

Well, personally I'd be interested in workplace equality and equal opportunities for women, and other such subjects. I have zero interest in transphobia, and I find the hatred directed at this minority frankly nauseating. Which is why I usually avoid the feminist board altogether (this topic popped up on active).

I never want to call myself a feminist as I don't want to be associated with many posters on these boards. Gender criticism is a non-issue and I'm not sure why people are trying to make it into a huge deal. There are real issues to focus on.

Sure it's a non issue. That must be what there so many court cases.

@ShagMeRiggins

It is about trans issues though

Again, I disagree. The many threads are about how women’s rights are threatened. For the past 5-6 years that threat has come mostly from the extreme trans lobby. That’s why it’s a hot topic here.

Perhaps when you use ‘issues’ and I use ‘rights’ we are discussing different things. That would be worth knowing.

To reply to your earlier question, women’s sex-based rights can be—and are—threatened by many other groups. Various cultural norms, religions, governments, and let’s not forget the unorganised group that is male pattern violence, which threatens everyone.

Right now, in the Western democracies and certainly in the UK, the conflict between female rights and trans rights is more pressing to me because the erosion or elimination of those rights will make other female rights—globally and culturally—more difficult to fight for, let alone uphold.

I welcome more voices in the feminist section of MN. I look forward to the many topics—nay, the deluge—yet to come.

But I will not be told that being gender critical is about “trans issues.” It is not. It never has been.

(Having completed dinner, I’m off to don my France football kit and catch the last part of tonight’s European championship football match.)

Well, with respect, that’s still not the issue. Mumsnet are proposing a separate topic for trans discussion. Here’s the thread and I’ve attached Justine’s post.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please?pg=7

*why

A lack of edit button is certainly an issue.

@Marty13 Tell me how you see this working, then. Why don't you post about equality on the feminist board now, & how do you think it will be different if there's a split? MN users can access any board & thread they wish, so what's going to change?

@OvaHere

*why

A lack of edit button is certainly an issue.

As is the lack of ability to block a poster. That would streamline threads nicely, sometimes.

Anything else we need?

What are they Marty

You can start a thread here

I say fine' do it then. Most of the posts will be in sex/gender as that is the most important battle at the moment. If we cant name our sex' and keep our sex based rights how can we tackle FGM, menstrustion, pregnancy, motherhood, rape. All of which are intersectional as affect all born females.

Well, personally I'd be interested in workplace equality and equal opportunities for women, and other such subjects. I have zero interest in transphobia, and I find the hatred directed at this minority frankly nauseating. Which is why I usually avoid the feminist board altogether (this topic popped up on active).

Looking forward to seeing you starting some threads around this then. I'm sure you'll be an active poster raising these issues now ☺️

Sure it's a non issue. That must be what there so many court cases

Thank goodness that many women didn't see this as a non issue.

Why don't you post about equality on the feminist board now, & how do you think it will be different if there's a split?

I usually post in forums where I feel comfortable just hanging out, scrolling by, reading topics as they come up. On the board as it currently is, two thirds of the discussions would be about stuff I am not interested in, and sometimes with opinions/positions that I find frankly disturbing. I'm not interested in subjecting myself to that, thanks. I'd probably hang out way more on a sub-forum where I don't have to constantly filter threads to find the few that I might actually be interested in. And, as a result, I would contribute more to discussions there.

Perfect Marty. You'll be able to start threads about all the topics that interest you on the feminist sub forums.☺️

Lol yep

Mumsnet are proposing a separate topic for trans discussion.

They’re proposing a separate topic for Sex/Gender within the context of the feminism section.. That’s different. It’s not a “separate topic for trans discussion.”

That screenshot throws out a lot of possibilities for topic names, I believe Justine was floating ideas.

Again, I look forward to the many, many threads after the changes come into place. I’m open to all substantive debate.

@ShagMeRiggins

Mumsnet are proposing a separate topic for trans discussion.

They’re proposing a separate topic for Sex/Gender within the context of the feminism section.. That’s different. It’s not a “separate topic for trans discussion.”

That screenshot throws out a lot of possibilities for topic names, I believe Justine was floating ideas.

Again, I look forward to the many, many threads after the changes come into place. I’m open to all substantive debate.

Again, the suggestion is shaving non-trans topics away from the FWR board and having different headings. The common factor is trans discussion.

I expect you'll be starting lots of interesting and thoughtful threads too pumper. ☺️

@Erikrie

I expect you'll be starting lots of interesting and thoughtful threads too pumper. ☺️

I might Erikrie, although I suspect you’ll see me on the trans boards too.

I might Erikrie, although I suspect you’ll see me on the trans boards too

Oh I have no doubt you'll be there too pumper. Asking questions to quench your thirst for knowledge. ☺️

@Erikrie

I might Erikrie, although I suspect you’ll see me on the trans boards too

Oh I have no doubt you'll be there too pumper. Asking questions to quench your thirst for knowledge. ☺️

No doubt!

The common factor is trans discussion

The common factor is the current attempt to erode or remove the legal rights of females.

I get it. We see things differently and have different beliefs.

Enjoy your evening.

@ShagMeRiggins

The common factor is trans discussion

The common factor is the current attempt to erode or remove the legal rights of females.

I get it. We see things differently and have different beliefs.

Enjoy your evening.

We don’t actually, as far as I can see. But mumsnet’s proposal is to shave the other issues away from the trans discussion and rename the headings. So it makes no difference what you or I believe, that’s the issue at hand.

I think this is a bad idea and I really question the motives of those who have pushed for this. Why would you want to try and hive off discussion on a topic that goes to the heart of the experience of women. How our sex is viewed by society and the imposition of gender stereotypes is core to women's experiences - these are not "trans" topics they are women's topics.

How about - FWR - Naughty Step for the new name.

Interesting that they are ploughing ahead despite clear community opposition. Does not usually happen.