Compromise for new FWR section - could you support this?

[shesellsseacats]

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough, if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, how about MN keeps this main topic as Feminism Chat, same as now (all feminist related topics welcome) and then add a feminist sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.

This will give those who want it, a section free from this discussion, but be much less of a moderation headache for MN.

Win-win, no?!

Could you get behind this?

If so, what could the new sub-topic be called? (Some sensible answers, please! I'd love MN to take this seriously.)

Certainly not.

No, that doesn't work for me.

I don't like the idea at all. The discussion of disadvantages experienced as a consequence of our innate biology is central to the discussion of feminist issues.

Nope.

Why does there need to be more than one feminism board? People are free to scroll by/hide any of the threads they aren't interested in.

There is one infant feeding board, for breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, weaning. If you want advice or to contribute to a thread about breastfeeding, you're welcome to ignore the bottlefeeding threads if it doesn't interest you, and vice versa.

Yes, I think it's a good compromise.

My heart sank as I read your words. How could someone be a feminist if they aren't interested in the biggest threat to women's identify, progression and autonomy to land on our laps in a while.

Ridiculous. Bug off.

The idea of trying to talk about Feminism without mentioning sex or gender is laughable.

No. You can't engage with feminism while ignoring sex and gender. It would be like a communist discussion board that excluded mention of labour or capital.

I've no objection to a separate No Sex or Gender Please section. I'd predict it would in practice be about as popular and well used as the various other Feminism boards which already exist, which anyone who genuinely wanted an alternative could have colonised. (I believe MNHQ is thinking of doing away with those)

No. I think there are too many Feminist subcategories as it is. If there is a thread that doesn’t interest me, I won’t open it. But at least give me a chance to see and read the title!

(And I do find this very uncomfortable in light of the ruling in Maya’s case).

Also, I get the impression that whoever suggested this doesn’t actually understand feminism.

I'm in favour of a separate subsection, whether dedicated to gender issues or specifically free of them. Any name for the new board, or way of structuring it, is likely to be criticised by people who don't want it.

@LeopardHawk

No. You can't engage with feminism while ignoring sex and gender. It would be like a communist discussion board that excluded mention of labour or capital.

There's a clear difference between threads focused on transgender issues, and threads where transgender issues might have relevance but aren't the subject of the thread.

Shesellscats
As someone who doesn't post on the FWR board, is this just because you have newly joined Mumsnet or because the threads are of no interest to you.
Which threads would you like to be moved? What would you like to call it?

I think the onus is on those who want an additional, separate board to sort it out. I object very strongly to a landgrab for FWR but if people want to go and create their own space then it's up to them to make a coherent argument to MNHQ.

I suggest you post this on AIBU as those who don't read FWR because of our topic focus won't know about this.

I don't think this will work.

As far as I can see the people who complain about all the posts being about trans issues only only post on threads about this and don't start or contribute to other threads.

People who complain that this board is hostile to alternative opinions tend to post statements and leave, rather than arguing their point.

These people don't want a friendly board when they can discuss feminist issues without reference to sex/gender issues. They want everyone else to stop talking about them, wherever that may be.

These people don't want a friendly board when they can discuss feminist issues without reference to sex/gender issues. They want everyone else to stop talking about them, wherever that may be.

That's a sweeping generalisation which I don't think is true.

@334bu

Shesellscats As someone who doesn't post on the FWR board, is this just because you have newly joined Mumsnet or because the threads are of no interest to you. Which threads would you like to be moved? What would you like to call it?

I'm a serial name changer but a FWR regular - I've been here 12 years and my motivation is to keep the Feminist Chat section as it is!

Have you seen, Mumsnet are planning to censor this section so we can't talk about sex and gender here anymore, and to hive us off into a sub-section.

I think that's a terrible plan.

I thought giving the people who don't like talk of sex and gender their own subsection would be a workable compromise.

We get to keep FWR, they get their section to talk about - whatever.

And MN don't get the moderation nightmare they seem to be planning on walking into.

If we don't persuade them to do otherwise, this section is for the chop as we know it.

Our sex and patriarchal attitudes of men are fundamentally why we need feminism and why males are not included in my definition of feminism. Gender stereotyping is one of the main reasons males are imposing that control on women in the west. I doubt any of us like the way Trans issues keep imposing on our lives but discussion of that is unavoidable if we’re going to talk about feminism

The MNHQ version is from Justine and is on this thread.

The current plan seems so be to purge this board of radical and GC feminists and hive us off somewhere, while reorganising the whole FWR section.

It's a terrible idea, of course.

I thought my compromise might help save this board as we know it.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

If anyone feels like there are too many threads on the trans issue, then they need to start threads on topics about which they'd like to discuss. As has been suggested since time immemorial, but it rarely happens. MN is not a magazine!

I seem to remember when the great FWR wars happened years ago that the equalists wanted a Human Rights board. I think it's still there but full of tumbleweed. Because really, some people just want women to stop talking about things where one has to think hard about what feminism means to them.

May I add my vote against changing the current format of the board. If it ain’t broke- don’t fix it.
How is it in any sense “feminist” to hide our single most contentious issue and biggest threat to women’s rights, on a separate board? This smacks of a desperate attempt to silence us, or to shrink our potential audience.

I think the onus is on those who want a feminism board free of gender issues, to request one.

If I wanted a new board for looking after Vietnamese pot bellied pigs & definitely no other pets, I'd ask for that, not insist that all the cat people shift out of the Litter Tray because me & my pigs want to, well, hog it.

@StillFemale

Our sex and patriarchal attitudes of men are fundamentally why we need feminism and why males are not included in my definition of feminism. Gender stereotyping is one of the main reasons males are imposing that control on women in the west. I doubt any of us like the way Trans issues keep imposing on our lives but discussion of that is unavoidable if we’re going to talk about feminism

Yes, agreed. So, let's let the lib fems have their sub section and we keep FWR here.

The alternative as suggested by MNHQ is that we're all silenced on this board.

I can't believe they've thought this through - it will be a moderation nightmare for them!

My feeling is that just saying we don't like the idea probably won't get us as far as offering workable alternatives.