Compromise for new FWR section - could you support this?

[shesellsseacats]

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough, if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, how about MN keeps this main topic as Feminism Chat, same as now (all feminist related topics welcome) and then add a feminist sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.

This will give those who want it, a section free from this discussion, but be much less of a moderation headache for MN.

Win-win, no?!

Could you get behind this?

If so, what could the new sub-topic be called? (Some sensible answers, please! I'd love MN to take this seriously.)

No - in the era where 'intersectionality' is the buzzword, why this attempt to ghettoise this key subject into another section, and why now? The timing rings alarm bells.

And why now?

OP is correct in terms of what Justine has said on Site Stuff. It's not ideal but it's not her fault. It's a possible compromise. Don't shoot the messenger.

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Nope.

Why does there need to be more than one feminism board? People are free to scroll by/hide any of the threads they aren't interested in.

There is one infant feeding board, for breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, weaning. If you want advice or to contribute to a thread about breastfeeding, you're welcome to ignore the bottlefeeding threads if it doesn't interest you, and vice versa.

There are currently 4 (or is it 5?) feminist boards.

From memory, there's Feminist Chat (here), also Feminist Activism, Feminist Book Club and ... erm... something else.

I bet most posters never visit the other boards (I don't despite good intentions!)

MNHQ's suggestion is to make the main section free from discussions on gender and sex, and hide us away in the doldrums.

I'm suggesting that if the lib fems want a board that's free from our discussion, they should be the sub-section, not us.

If you don't like the idea - what else can you suggest? The plan to hide us away has come from the top - Justine.

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

Yes, I think it's an extremely misguided plan, but there may be pressure behind the scenes to keep GC discussion corralled in its own topic.

@IvyTwines2

No - in the era where 'intersectionality' is the buzzword, why this attempt to ghettoise this key subject into another section, and why now? The timing rings alarm bells.

I'm suggesting the opposite!!

MNHQ are suggesting ghettoising us.

I'm suggesting we stay here but accept a sub-section that's free form sex and gender chat.

@somethinginoffensive

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

Well yes, agreed, but this plan comes from the top, so we'd better organise quickly and give MNHQ something that can work with or we're for the chop.

While I don't actively disagree with the op's idea, I don't think it's up to FWR posters to run around sorting this out. If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it.

If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it

That's not what's being suggested.

Justine (The MNHQ original, it's her site, for newbies) is saying the plan is to purge THIS board of discussions on sex and gender - they would then make a new sub section to hide us all away in.

It's not about whether other people want to make a new section.

It's about whether WE get to keep THIS section.

Don't agree at all. Why should feminism just be a subset of discussions about sex and gender. It should be the other way round.

If you don't like the idea - what else can you suggest? The plan to hide us away has come from the top - Justine.

Maybe lots of us will go elsewhere I guess. I don't know. It shouldn't change from what it is. More tinkering to appease a minority of dissenters... hmmm

Perhaps there should be a secret board for FWR regulars only?

I know that and I can see where you're coming from op. I'm just not inclined to run around sorting out a problem that other people might have.

@somethinginoffensive

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

This. FWR is the main reason I'm on Mumsnet tbh, if they try to hide us away then I'll probably de-reg.

I doubt that worries anyone 😂 but @MNHQ should really consider what an own goal this would be.

They are going to change the board, i think i can safely say that

I agree that Feminism chat should be left alone and if others want a ‘new’ board then it can be requested and set up

I do not like the idea of the boards being labeled GC, or red fem or lib fem for example as that leads to further polarisation

@UberMullet

Don't agree at all. Why should feminism just be a subset of discussions about sex and gender. It should be the other way round.

I'm saying there should be one section where you can discuss anything you like to do with feminism, that there should be no editorial decisions made.

And if people want a section that's free from this debate then that should be the sub-section.

Sex and gender touch so many issues in feminism, it's impractical to ban it from the main feminist board. Plus it's silencing women talking about feminist issues - not very feminist!

If they (MNHQ) do this I would most likely get off MN and just stay on twitter. FWR is one of the reasons I've stayed on MN so long and why I'm a subscriber as I wanted to help them out when advertisers on here targeted by TRA's.

I don't post much, mostly as I'm not as well read as other posters but I've learned so much from the feminist board.

One of MN 's tag lines was ( something like) "I came for the advice on raising children and stayed for the feminism".

Well that is me and if they make the trans/womens rights part a subsection I won't stay.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

If you don't like the idea - what else can you suggest? The plan to hide us away has come from the top - Justine.

Maybe lots of us will go elsewhere I guess. I don't know. It shouldn't change from what it is. More tinkering to appease a minority of dissenters... hmmm

Elsewhere - where?!

MN really is a unique space.

I'll be honest, I'm not keen.

Rightly or wrongly I feel very connected to Feminism Chat and the women I've learned so much from here.

When I first started lurking many years ago it was because (despite being a strong LGBT ally) I had become increasingly concerned about Stonewall's direction in expanding the definition of Trans and the push for Self ID.

I felt concerned but struggled to articulate why.

It was a massive eye opener to come here and have the sheer scale of the issues laid out for me and it prompted me to do my own research and really think hard about my position on what is an emotive topic.

Had this forum been tucked away as a sub section above another that didn't reference these issues at all would I have had the same experience/opportunity?

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't.

I not against "liberal feminists/Intersectional feminists" having their own forum but since I disagree that any "feminism" that doesn't centre women is not feminism, I'd be most unhappy with that section "top trumping" this or FC having to change its name to accommodate them - the whole reason we are in this mess is because women were expected to "accommodate" non female centric demands.

@DeRigueurMortis

I'll be honest, I'm not keen.

Rightly or wrongly I feel very connected to Feminism Chat and the women I've learned so much from here.

When I first started lurking many years ago it was because (despite being a strong LGBT ally) I had become increasingly concerned about Stonewall's direction in expanding the definition of Trans and the push for Self ID.

I felt concerned but struggled to articulate why.

It was a massive eye opener to come here and have the sheer scale of the issues laid out for me and it prompted me to do my own research and really think hard about my position on what is an emotive topic.

Had this forum been tucked away as a sub section above another that didn't reference these issues at all would I have had the same experience/opportunity?

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't.

I not against "liberal feminists/Intersectional feminists" having their own forum but since I disagree that any "feminism" that doesn't centre women is not feminism, I'd be most unhappy with that section "top trumping" this or FC having to change its name to accommodate them - the whole reason we are in this mess is because women were expected to "accommodate" non female centric demands.

DeRigueurMortis so, what would else you suggest as a solution to the problem that MNHQ want to purge discussion of sex and gender from this board?

Well I don't actually know @shesellsseacats - I agree it's unique and this is what is so awful about this- if the one place where we've felt able to discuss gender issues wants to silo us off away from the board where we belong, I don't very much feel like staying on here. Which is a massive shame as I've learnt so much from the women on FWR.

Can you imagine what a nightmare it'll be for MNHQ to moderate?!
What are they thinking?!

Feeling a bit Aesop's fable and being asked to give up something, like The Lion in Love .

fablesofaesop.com/the-lion-in-love.html

@shesellsseacats hi, my objection was to the originally proposed idea of moving the discussion away, which comes across as hiding it, especially from newcomers to the subject, not to your comment or attempt at a compromise. So many of these subjects are interlinked though, especially sexual harassment and online porn to the rapid rise in girls identifying as 'trans' or 'non binary', and we need to be able to see and discuss the big picture.