Compromise for new FWR section - could you support this?

[shesellsseacats]

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough, if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, how about MN keeps this main topic as Feminism Chat, same as now (all feminist related topics welcome) and then add a feminist sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.

This will give those who want it, a section free from this discussion, but be much less of a moderation headache for MN.

Win-win, no?!

Could you get behind this?

If so, what could the new sub-topic be called? (Some sensible answers, please! I'd love MN to take this seriously.)

What should the new ‘be kind’ board be called?

Bluntly, it should mention the phenomenon of self-harming* but that would be seen as advocating a deeply dangerous practice that is undermining the physical and emotional wellbeing of women…

*I should point out that some of the women who self-harm in this way (ceding women's rights on behalf of all women) are protected with full body knife-proof suits - although some may discover that the suits are not as advertised when it's rather too late.

Why can't we just have x2 completely separate feminism boards?
Set up a new one for liberal/social justice feminism where they can talk about sex work, cis privilege etc. and keep FWR for feminists who understand that it is our biology that makes us female and that our oppression is sex based.

Beyond calling ourselves feminist we have so little in common so why on earth try and shoehorn us into the same section. Each board can then centre the issues it feels are most important to it.

We could have one board called “feminism and women’s rights” (FWR), and one called “The rights of some people who do menstruate and some people who don’t” (TRSPWMSPWD)

(Too much…? Sorry )

Signalbox I fear if two boards did happen the one that allowed GC discussion and rad FEM would be targeted and eventually shut down.
Leaving a space where people could post memes about Beyonce but all the sex based issues like fgm, pay gap would be disallowed. Not ideal.

@Floisme

While I don't actively disagree with the op's idea, I don't think it's up to FWR posters to run around sorting this out. If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it.

Me too

If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it.

I'd be more convinced of this if they ever posted anything on any topics.
Mostly they just crash existing threads by saying we're talking about x too much.

They then usually cite fgm, prostitution as a more 'worthy' thing to discuss.
It's then usually pointed out that not only are these sex based issues, but are negatively impacted by gender identity and queer theory (Hibo Wardere and the Paris protests spring to mind).
They pretty much accuse us of being xyz and flounce.
They never start new threads.
They never contribute beyond moaning.

As predictable as the tides.

Seems like a good idea to me. A section for feminists and a section for people who identify as feminists.

No. No way.

We don't need a "compromise", which would be just as ghettoising as the other pointless suggestions that have been put forward as some kind of "solution" to feminists discussing what they want want discuss.

It’s doomed to failure anyway, because we all know that our what our friendly local “just popping in to be inclusive” visitors absolutely don’t want is to leave us alone to think our nasty thoughtcrimes in peace. They want to come over and covert us and tell us we’re wrong - that’s the whole point!

The idea that instead there’ll be a jolly board talking about how intersectionality can solve the pay gap is a nice fantasy, but still a fantasy.

I'm probably missing something, but I don't understand the objections to this idea in the form that OP has suggested it.

I agree it would be a very bad idea to split off discussion of gender critical issues from other feminist issues. Because you can't separate them. The other board without GC opinions allowed would be some piss-poor parody of feminism, so women wanting advice or discussion around important feminist issues not related to gender would be very poorly served.

But what's wrong with the idea of leaving this board as it is, with any topic of discussion related to feminism allowed? And creating an extra board for people who want to discuss feminism without transactivism issues intruding into the discussion? I think if MN users want that kind of space it would be a good idea for them to make it. And it would be useful to direct the trolls on this board there when they come in to try to tell us we can't talk about the ways that transactivists are attacking women's rights.

What's the downside? I don't see how it would affect this space negatively.

It’s doomed to failure anyway

I agree with this but why does it matter? As long as this space is left alone.

I think the worry is this:
Split into two - board where you can discuss sex (as someone called it on another thread "the gulag") and board where you can't, or don't want to.

Then the people who think we shouldn't be able to talk about these things at all can pressure to get "the gulag" closed by saying "oh but we're not trying to stop feminists from talking, look, there is a board here full of feminists able to talk as much as they like (as long as they don't mention the elephant)".

Are we now the equivalent of cis-feminists? Being made into a separate subsection of “inclusive feminism” which includes anything anyone wants to call feminism?

How the fuck did anyone think that was an ok thing to do given the way women have been pushed into being a subset of womanhood over the past few years to accommodate everyone else?

Have another think about this please @MNHQ - you can’t remove sex and gender from discussions about feminism.

And it would be useful to direct the trolls on this board there when they come in to try to tell us we can't talk about the ways that transactivists are attacking women's rights.

I think we would need to understand the moderation principles for moving a thread. Would a community disrupter (as per Bunbury) anybody who wished to be able to derail/merail a thread to their own agenda be empowered to insist the moderators should move it?

No, leave it alone - thin end of the wedge and all that. Mumsnet, are you crazy? Budging over, how long before you call the site BirthingBodiesNet?

Signalbox I fear if two boards did happen the one that allowed GC discussion and rad FEM would be targeted and eventually shut down.

You're probably right. And perhaps this is a sneaky way of trying to achieving just that.

I can't quite imagine how Mumsnet thinks their proposed system would work though. I mean don't all feminist issues centre around sex and gender in some way? And if threads start popping up about how sex work is empowering or how women shouldn't centre their reproductive systems at the heart of feminism it is still going to kick off because all the unkind hateful women will still be on site and up for debating actual women's rights.