My teen daughter has burst out crying and gone upstairs because we were discussing Maya Forstater

[Bryonyshcmyony]

It came up on the news and I said something like surely its obvious that biological sex is real. Gender identity isn't the same as biological sex. She said people on tiktok say that there is a chromosomal spectrum. I said if someone has a chromosomal abnormality that's not proof that biological sex doesn't exist. Then she cried, said how frustrated I make her and just wants to live in a world where transpeople are accepted for who they are and its not her job to educate me as - and I quote - an ignorant old person.

I'm actually quite hurt. I don't want her to hate me! Obviously it's just a subject that is completely out of bounds. Anyone else faced similar?

@ChattyLion
“ we don’t have equality yet for very very many groups in society, including women, people of colour, people with disabilities, people who are same-sex attracted and many many more.”

True, but one of the latest popular notions is that “cis” women, especially white women, are extremely privileged, especially over transwomen. The only inequality that’s fashionable for young people to champion right now is “trans rights”.

I do hope you’re right and that the penny will drop for more young people.

The BBC is currently laughing and making fun of a bunch of guys dressed as old women to do a charity scooter ride.

Surely that's transphobic?

Seriously though, does this ridiculing of people crossing gender norms contribute to why people feel the need to be so 'one side or the other'?

I sat through a training session for PREVENT and they talked about this inability to question the narrative and how people who have been targeted for radicalisation can't deal with questions they don't know how to answer because it doesn't fit the core belief. If it's off script, it's shut down.

Some TRAs could benefit from intervention as their belief in genderism has led them to terrorise women.

@Whatabouttery

The BBC is currently laughing and making fun of a bunch of guys dressed as old women to do a charity scooter ride.

Surely that's transphobic?

Seriously though, does this ridiculing of people crossing gender norms contribute to why people feel the need to be so 'one side or the other'?

There was a group of men who dressed up as female nurses and did a charity run (or bed push) and the charity declined their money because they were men dressed up as (of course) ‘sexy nurses’.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

I sat through a training session for PREVENT and they talked about this inability to question the narrative and how people who have been targeted for radicalisation can't deal with questions they don't know how to answer because it doesn't fit the core belief. If it's off script, it's shut down.

Some TRAs could benefit from intervention as their belief in genderism has led them to terrorise women.

I agree, the methods behind the radicalisation and the way those further up the chain weaponise younger and vulnerable people was striking in similarity to me. I do think it might be a comparison worth examining from some of the organisations standing up for women and girls in all of this.

@JediGnot According to the ONS, the gender pay gap remained close to zero for full-time employees aged under 40 years but was over 10% for older age groups. Most of the time this is due to women taking time off to have children, thereby missing out on promotions, etc.

@JediGnot Forgot to say most companies and organisations have to report their pay gap data and it is illegal under the Equal Pay Act to pay women less for doing the same job as a man without a good reason, such as more seniority/years in the job.

[quote RadandMad]@JediGnot Forgot to say most companies and organisations have to report their pay gap data and it is illegal under the Equal Pay Act to pay women less for doing the same job as a man without a good reason, such as more seniority/years in the job.[/quote]
Just googled Gender pay gap needs reporting by companies with over 250 staff.

also "There are 8,000 large businesses (defined as businesses with more than 250 employees), accounting for 0.1% of businesses but 39% of employment and 48% of turnover, as the following chart shows."

So, the vast majority of businesses DO NOT have to report the gender pay gap, and only 39% of staff are covered. Just fact checking you!

I'd also be suspicious that "doing the same job as a man without a good reason" means much in a lot of companies. Not least as bringing in more money would seem to me to be a good reason, and a man might bring in more money because it suits them to get pissed with clients 4 nights a week, whereas the equivalent woman is rushing home because she cares about her kids!

Pettiness aside, I take your point - you're up on this stuff more than I am.

@JediGnot The sad thing is that tackling the inequality in pay caused by women taken career breaks for kids is a much harder nut to crack than structural sexism in the workplace. Sweden has tried offering equal parental leave entitlement for women and men, but nevertheless most men do not take time off and so the pay and promotion differential remains. It's hard to know what the answer is. It is a burning question for more enlightened employers, who know they are losing or under utilising a great deal of female talent.

Not least as bringing in more money would seem to me to be a good reason, and a man might bring in more money because it suits them to get pissed with clients 4 nights a week, whereas the equivalent woman is rushing home because she cares about her kids!
Well this is the whole problem. If bringing in money is how success is measured, and its dependent on evening client entertaining, and society tolerates men being absent from family life more than women (by which I mean that more women than men take responsibility for care), then women can never be equal.

At least two of those barriers are structural and could be tackled by cultural change - less correlation between success and out of hours work; less tolerance of men being absent fathers.

According to Liz Truss at the Women and Equalities Select Committee the Gender Pay Gap is made up of:

1. Women and girls choosing less well paid jobs and careers than men and boys - so current big push to get girls into STEM which is generally a higher paid career choice

1. The Maternity Penalty

1. Sexism - however this was very much 3rd to the first 2.

Just ignore it. They hear so much rubbish on social media and at school. It's our duty to bring a scientifically based opinion to the table.