Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

[ChristinaXYZ]

Labour and Self-id

twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549

Rosie Duffield gets the predictable kicking in the comments. Still no public support for her. That's what the Labour leadership think about women's rights and women who have an opinion.

Why any women would vote Labour I really do not know.

I too rescinded my membership. I'd been a card carrying, active CLP member for 30+ years.

I was challenged, shouted at, called names and told to fuck off out of the party, because I wouldn't agree with it's more woke ideas.

I did fight it from the inside, voted against their misogynistic policies - and was castigated for doing so.

I'll never vote for them again. Root and branch the Labour Party has forgotten it's history and it's reasons for existing.

I guess he is going to increase the number of women voting labour by letting men self id as women?

Well that says it all doesn’t it and in the Pink news after that terrible interview yesterday.

I popped into my office yesterday and one of the younger women started talking to me about what she had heard.....the deletion of with word mother by organisations. She was really upset and amazed. And I didn’t even need to show my cards! Job done.

Why would I join my local Labour Party and express my views that supports female human rights, when it would mean I have to worry about being threatened with a baseball bat? Put extra security measures in my home? Worry about my DC? I've already got CCTV and a sealed up letterbox.

I choose to write my letters, and work my networks and contacts. To support Rosie Duffield. To make efforts to hold MPs to account. It all adds up.

I wish I were joking about the local politics. In England. It's heartbreaking we're here.

Absolutely appalled by his speech. I can't vote for them again. I'm also appalled he dismissed all the LGB people who fought for equality and said it was pioneered by the T.

I mean you could equally say, join a party with a more sensible policy on this, and see what you can do to move their other policies. It might be more manageable.

But the fact is if they keep losing votes, the LP won't be a player at all. So they can see the writing on the wall or become an irrelevancy.

Why are we being blamed for this? Keyboard warriors my arse.
Its not just loud voices on Twitter, thats the party leader speaking. Wake up.

Ive been banging on about the issue for years to much eyerolling from friends including hard core labour / ld supporters (and elected representatives) and full on social justice supporters. They have given me a fair amount of shit at points.

However of late, they have started to say things I've been saying for years. And in addition to that, that Starmer is a disappointment.

Its interesting to see the penny dropping and them admitting i had a point all along.

One actively came out with a comment about extemists last week which really did make me sit up and think the tide is turning.

These are people who naturally want to be inclusive - the problem is they are realising that this extremism is exactly the opposite and is creating exclusion and leaving large groups in a position where they are marginalised because of views which are at odds with reality and safeguarding.

Its not about not reading the room or echo chambers. This is about a failure to understand that current policy is alienating large groups of people who are sympathetic to the cause but think that this shit is fundamentally missing the point and discriminating against others now.

@Thelnebriati

Why are we being blamed for this? Keyboard warriors my arse. Its not just loud voices on Twitter, thats the party leader speaking. Wake up.

Well, it's always got to be women's fault. We're supposed to be human shields or something.

If everyone leans in, they'll just have to listen!

@thecatfromjapan

I agree, MidClrgs. People, you need to join, not leave. And join now. Believe me, the progressive/lefties amongst you are wanted and needed. FFS - you have a right to be there. Don't let yourselves get edged out by loud voices on Twitter.

For what it's worth:

Starmer hasn't said anything that isn't in the manifesto. Which is all about support and debate.

Starmer is - very publicly - being advised, by very clever people, that this issue is toxic to all hell for Labour. He hasn't been captured. He's not daft.

Having said all of that - he needs to do something firm. If I were his advisor (& I'm not), I'd be telling him to make a hard-line statement saying the abuse of Rosie Duffield on social media is completely unacceptable.

The mad years of social media warriors that were a real feature of Corbyn-era populism - it's time to draw a line under that.

But, honestly, I've said it before : now is the time to join Labour - not to leave.

You know my thoughts on this.

People tried to do this.

They were bullied out. Or marginalised deliberately.

I fear that ship sailed for some time.

The leadership have to lead on this. They don't want to.

The Conservatives will increase their majority at the next election unless something fundamental changes.

All he's said is that he is supportive of trans rights and, generally, supportive of self-id.

We know there is an issue with the current situation - the medical route was painful, long and arduous.

That's why the old GRA looked like an easy win - there was a lot of consensus that change was needed.

But the devil, of course, is in the detail.

We know that - and now a lot more people know that.

Across the board self-id is vanishingly unlikely. The Labour manifesto accepts that.

And in this statement, Starmer has gone no further than what is in the manifesto.

@irresistibleoverwhelm

It was shit wasn't it

Yes, RedToothBrush, I think it is time (beyond time, in fact,) for the leadership to weigh in here.

If Starmer gets his way and self-ID goes through, on the basis of the 2019 data on transgender prisoners from the MoJ, there will be 130 additional prisoners of the male sex transferred to the female estate. This will be enough for at least 10 in each women's prison.

Again, going from the MoJ data, 57% of these have at least 1 conviction for sexual offences.

However, none will be risk assessed for sexual reoffending because the OASys Sexual Reoffender Predictor is only used with men and can't be used with women.

When we are told that. this cohort of prisoners is thoroughly risk assessed such that female offenders are kept safe, it is simply not true.

@Thelnebriati

If everyone leans in, they'll just have to listen!

I'm leaning in for sure....by putting my faith in Liz Truss.

We know there is an issue with the current situation - the medical route was painful, long and arduous.

I don't understand your point. If you intend to have SRS it will be long, painful and arduous no matter how simply the paperwork becomes.

@thecatfromjapan

Yes, RedToothBrush, I think it is time (beyond time, in fact,) for the leadership to weigh in here.

Cat, Labour has a decade at least before they wake up and even begin to realise wtf has happened imho.

Starmer won't be the one to fix it.

It will be someone from the north.

You see, I just don't think that is Starmer's position on self-I'd, KeepPrisons.

I'm convinced he knows there will have to be limitations.

Apart from anything else, there would be a raft of legal cases.

Plus, if Labour adopt self-id without limits - that's just waving goodbye to government.

You know it, I know it, Starmer certainly knows it.

As I keep saying, there is nothing in that statement that suggests all-out self-id is Starmer's position.

Indeed, it's carefully crafted not to say that.

I fear you may well be right about that, Red.

A lot of us are very awake to all this. I suspect Starmer is one of them. But it's going to take a hell of a lot to pull the ship back on course. 🤷‍♀️

It's ... frustrating.

Plus, if Labour adopt self-id without limits - that's just waving goodbye to government.

I admire your optimism but I'm not a gambler so I won't be giving labour the opportunity to screw women over in government.

There was nothing in his statement to support the idea that he 'gets it' about self ID, and realises it can't work alongside sex based rights.

I have to say I agree with pp who say stay in labour if you're there. Use your voice.

The green vote described above was awful; I gave my proxy vote but the whole thing was a farce as anyone in the Green Party could self id as female and vote for the green women. So loads of blokes did.

I joined the greens about a year ago and I'm glad I did. I have heard of certain long standing members who have subsequently been listening and watching and are making real efforts to change this shit from the inside.

Won't happen over night. But will with more members who want to make their voice heard.

Unfortunately I don't think we will topple the tories for years yet.

Best place to grow up in or grow old in.... unless you are an adult human female then KS couldn't give a flying fuck about you.