Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

[ChristinaXYZ]

Labour and Self-id

twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1402586773499244549

Rosie Duffield gets the predictable kicking in the comments. Still no public support for her. That's what the Labour leadership think about women's rights and women who have an opinion.

Why any women would vote Labour I really do not know.

Just cancelled my direct debit. Had enough.

cat I admire your optimism, but fear you are being dreadfully naive.

I see no evidence at all that Labour are listening to, or are willing to listen to women on this issue. Letters to MPs go unanswered, the only MP who has spoken out has been subject to awful abuse, women's meetings disrupted and attacked. Labour leadership have been silent.

He signed a pledge, he just announced in a video that he supports self ID. the idea that he secretly means something else has no basis in fact as far as I can see

If he means something else, he has a funny way of showing it.

That looked like a hostage video to me. I am quite prepared to believe that he does not believe a word of it. But he still said it, no doubt knowing exactly what he was saying. It reads like an attempt to shore up Stonewall. He could have stalled for longer but does not have the ablity.

If you think he is going to turn the Labour Party around, you have another think coming.

As a Labour party member, I absolutely do not want them to "read the room". I don't want them to do what is popular, I want them to do what they believe to be right.

In this instance, op, you don't think they are right ( time will tell if you or the Labour party are right).

I have a degree of sympathy for your view, and I can certainly see it's point, but I never ever want another government that is content to only do what is popular, instead of doing what they believe to be right. After all polls have shown time and time again, that the populace would support the reintroduction of the repellent ( to me) death penalty. Being popular and being morally right can be two different things.

I'm not a one issue voter. My vote goes to those who I think will most benefit the whole of society. So far,nothing I've seen or read persuaded me to vote for any other party but Labour.

@thecatfromjapan

Honestly, the manifesto position in this was penned by Lachlan Stewart.

Starmer hasn't said anything that is outside of that position.

I don't understand why everyone is suggesting he's saying any more than that.

He's not.

Lachlan is someone for whom I have the greatest respect. He says on Twitter that he thinks KS isn't paying a great deal of attention to this issue and is relying - as all leaders do - on his advisors.

So who are his advisors?

twitter.com/lachlan_edi/status/1402695635988619274?s=21

Exactly. I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for leaving a party that has treated me like shit. No one would expect black people to stay in a party that was campaigning to rescind anti-racism laws, or gay people to stay in a party fighting to overturn gay marriage. But, of course, we're women so it's our fucking job to serve everyone, even if they treat us like crap? No thanks - that both misogynistic and pointless.

This with bells on.

Amongst the tweets below the video, is the bombshell that Karen White was not transgender. I'm so confused, because didn't Karen say that Karen was a woman? Isn't that self ID? Can't get my stupid woman brain around it.

@pickingdaisies

Amongst the tweets below the video, is the bombshell that Karen White was not transgender. I'm so confused, because didn't Karen say that Karen was a woman? Isn't that self ID? Can't get my stupid woman brain around it.

Acceptance without exception.

But yes, therein lies the problem, how can anyone tell a transwomen from a pretend transwomen.

I think part of the problem is the Labour right have shot themselves in the foot. Having cynically weaponised antisemitism to destroy Corbyn with such wilful disregard for old fashioned niceties like logical argument and burden of proof, they've identified themselves with the whole ultra-woke mentality, where all you have to do is politely suggest that there might be some nuance to explore about a sensitive topic rather than THE "RIGHT" ANSWER, to be drowned in outraged cries of "RACIST!", "ANTISEMITE!", "ISLAMOPHOBE!", "TRANSPHOBE!" etc. And once those things are shouted loudly enough, they must be true.

I’d love to see the Labour Party membership numbers over the past couple of years. Is it going up or down? Who is leaving? Who is joining?
More importantly, how has the number of activists changed? Loads of people joined in the Corbyn era but how many actually cared enough to leaflet? And how many were just keyboard warrior virtue-signalling slactivists?

Acceptance without exception - except, apparently, when the self appointed "proper" ones tell the rest of us mere mortals which ones aren't. Because we'd never have noticed by ourselves.

I appreciate all of the ‘fight from inside’ posts, I really do and I understand your point. But personally I am not going to pay my subs every month to a party that has just threatened my daughters sex based rights (whether he actually believes it will happen if they come to power or not; with limits, or not at all). The fact it’s been stated in a video with PN just rubs salt into the wounds, especially after the last few days. I will direct my subs to women’s charities instead.

I think right now, hitting them in the pocket through regular monthly subs will be far more effective than fighting from within.

The sad thing is, that having alienated women all over the country, it's STILL NOT ENOUGH for the tra's. Swathes of comments demanding more, like the plant in the little shop of horrors.

I understand your point, too Whatthechicken

I do wonder when that clip was recorded. Does anyone know?

It's odd that Pink News released it. Normally, I'd expect Keir Starmer to release it from his own account. Is Pink News trying to divert attention away from yesterday's interview?

At least I know where I stand with labour now Starmer has got off the fence and shown he has no care for women's rights.

If Starmer isn't for total self ID as some have suggested then why doesn't he explain exactly what he means ? The Pink News video is being shared all over Twitter in a mostly negative light, it is being used by George Galloway to try and gain votes in Batley and Spen and no doubt will be picked up by the media. I am so fed up with Labour being useless.

#Labourlosingwomen is trending

#labourlosingwomen is trending AGAIN. Are they deaf, stupid or do they just really really hate women?

I think Cat is right that starmer/his advisers think this statement is a clever walk of the tightrope - not actually expanding on the manifesto position (for which Labour got plenty of criticism from TRAs as well as GCs), just emphasising the bits this audience (Pink News) wants to hear and not saying the other bits (stronger single sex exemptions) out loud.

And to be honest it's probably fine with 90% of people who might consider voting Labour, most of whom don't think this issue particularly important either way.

He can either continue to walk a wobbly line, pissing off everyone who feels strongly but not making any sort of impact with anyone else

Or he can go full TWAW/full self-ID and lose a lot of Red Wall/GC feminist votes

Or he can go full GC and lose all the Corbynistas and kiss goodbye to ever recovering labour's lost Scottish seats

He's in a bind - this issue is just a microcosm of the massive problem Labour has. None of its ideological constituencies are big enough to get it a parliamentary majority, and Labour can't find positions that bring its constituencies together. They had the same problem with Brexit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's very good. But as cat says, if he goes the next leader will be full-on TWAW. I'm keeping my membership for now, if only to vote in the next leadership election...

How does this differ from the last manifesto? Am I right in thinking it said both that they were committed to single sex spaces as per the EA, and also that they would reform the gra?

we need a new political party don't we?

I suspect Lachlan Stuart is right: it's not an issue Keir Starmer has paid a great deal of attention to up until now and Social Media has been left to his advisors.

I really would like to know when that clip was recorded.

Time to bypass social media, I think.

@AnyFucker

That man has turned out to be such a disappointment

Hasn't he just.

As a Labour party member, I absolutely do not want them to "read the room". I don't want them to do what is popular, I want them to do what they believe to be right.

It is a popularity contest, though. They need to attract more votes in more seats than any other party, otherwise they will just be an opposition party with smug members believing that their policies are the correct ones and everyone else is an idiot for not seeing it.

It's also possible to have popular policies that fit the ethos of the party. So they don't have to support the death penalty, or compromise on womens right and safeguarding, if those issues are important.

I suspect someone within the party knows this is unpopular, so is trying to containing it with the LGBT press. Which isn't good because they are looking dishonest as well as out of touch.

This was just last year:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-mps-demand-reform-to-gender-recognition-act-gzrxd8dh5

No-one ever encourages Tories to stay at home or to resign their membership.
They have the same problem as the other parties; they're just not talking about it.

It isn't just a Labour problem, it isn't just a Left problem, it isn't even just a British problem or a UK problem. It's a worldwide issue affecting lots of countries and lots of political parties.

So I don't think anyone should be withholding votes or resigning from anywhere on this issue alone.