If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

(Missing the point entirely: isn’t she married to the toad that is Michael Gove?)

I don’t know any organisations or people who have changed the language they use.

I was told in a training session for doing annual reviews at work that I should avoid using terms like:
Man
Woman
Mother
Father
Son
Daughter

Birthing parent will always always be a women

They will not be a woman with a penis

They may not refer to themselves as mother but they will be a woman not a birthing person

Any examples?

Yes, the Act that we were literally just discussing. There was pushback and the language was changed.

I've also provided evidence of the Stella Creasy video and noted that one of the main speakers consistently refers to 'pregnant people' throughout.

Other posters have also provided examples from their own experience, while the article that is the subject of this thread is to do with the advice about gender neutral language that Stonewall was giving to organisations.

Do try to keep up.

Stonewall is losing supporters to the lgb Alliance. If they lose supporters then they lose funding.

They just haven’t realised it yet

I don’t know any organisations or people who have changed the language they use.

You may not realise it, but you almost definitely do.

@EdgeOfACoin

Any examples?

Yes, the Act that we were literally just discussing. There was pushback and the language was changed.

I've also provided evidence of the Stella Creasy video and noted that one of the main speakers consistently refers to 'pregnant people' throughout.

Other posters have also provided examples from their own experience, while the article that is the subject of this thread is to do with the advice about gender neutral language that Stonewall was giving to organisations.

Do try to keep up.

The act that didnt go ahead and some anecdata? Is that the best you’ve got?

I don’t think it’s me who’s struggling here.

@OhWhyNot

Birthing parent will always always be a women

They will not be a woman with a penis

They may not refer to themselves as mother but they will be a woman not a birthing person

Yes, I know a birthing parent will always be a woman. Why would I insist on calling someone mum if they didn't want to be called it though? It'd be like me refusing to call you by your name because I didn't like it and calling you something else instead, or saying thingy instead of your name. I mean I could, but I wouldn't, as I'm not a nob.

What point am I missing? Would you have preferred if there was no amendment? I’m guessing not. So it’s fine to say ‘we shouldn’t have to enshrine this in law’ but sometimes we do. That’s the end of the story, as far as I can see.

You are missing the point that the Bill was written is such a way that unless the amendment had been put down and agreed women would have lost the right to request a same sex examiner. The point you are spectacularly missing is WHY the Bill was written that way in the first place, it should never have been an issue that had to give rise to an amendment.

Likewise the Maternity Bill for Politicians it should never have been written excluding the terms women and mother, it should never have had to be subject to amendments from the HoL.

The question is why, who benefits from the removal or obfuscation of the words women and mother it sure as hell isn't women.

@Quaggars I totally agree. What is demanded on this thread would translate in real life into being a total arse.

Why would I insist on calling someone mum if they didn't want to be called it though?

Why would you insist on calling someone “birthing parent” or “pregnant person” if they don’t want to be called it?

Because that’s what is happening.

Is @RedthroatedCaracara actually one of Sarah Vine's MN socks?

God that's lame!

@ComtesseDeSpair well this is my kids high school transgender policy. Distortion of the Equality Act 2010 and a total erasure of single sex spaces/sports which will particularly affect girls. It’s an ideological indoctrination of our children

@astonafar The point is that Stonewall do not want you to be called a ‘mum’ as that is not an inclusive word as transwomen cannot be mothers. If mother is not an acceptable word in public policy, why is it acceptable otherwise?

It is that bonkers/crazy. You may say that you’re happy to use ‘birthing parent’ to be inclusive, but are you really in all circumstances? If the word ‘mother’ is acceptable in private, then it should also be acceptable in public.

For balance article in the observer today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Oh wait, a left leaning newspaper is also calling out Stonewall as problematic on women's rights!

No thanks, won't be reading anything written from that hypocritical, hateful Islamaphobe. On the other hand, I wonder how her husband is faring in the 'special pilot scheme' he's on since his return from Portugal...oh yes and he messed up education way before Stonewall stuck their oar in.

@AngeloMysterioso

Why would I insist on calling someone mum if they didn't want to be called it though?

Why would you insist on calling someone “birthing parent” or “pregnant person” if they don’t want to be called it?

Because that’s what is happening.

Has that happened to you? Or just what you've read online? As in RL people are still being called whatever the heck they like. I'm still mum. Whenever I go for a check up, or take my kids to the doctors, they still refer to me as mum. They don't say "hello primary care giver" or are you LittleQuaggars birthing parent?"

The poster referenced that the use of mother and women had been taken out of the text

I replied to your comment about lesbian and gay man being parents

A woman that gave birth to a child that now is being raised by two men is still a woman

When you use the term person this can imply they could be either a man or a woman this is why this term has been used. We all know that men can’t give birth so there is absolutely no need for this language it is irradiating terms used for females only

There is simply no need to do this

@WeeSisters everything I have read says the guidance is to say mothers and birthing partners. I am fine with this.

The act that didnt go ahead and some anecdata? Is that the best you’ve got?

I don’t think it’s me who’s struggling here.

The Act isn't anecdata. The video isn't anecdata. Direct quotes from maternity policies as provided by PPs are not anecdata (though admittedly the PP hasn't provided a copy of the policy). Documented Stonewall policy isn't anecdata.

People saying 'well it hasn't happened in my experience' is anecdata.

I mean, it's up to you how much weight you accord to each piece of evidence, and clearly you think mine isn't worth much, but these all point to an overall pattern.

I meant birthing parent.

@astonafar

What does it matter if the small number of people giving birth want to be called that and not mothers? You will still be called mothers. I do not see the big deal.

They can call themselves what they want to call themselves and no doubt people will respect that and refer to them as they wish to be referred to. What they do not have the right to do and nor should they is to expect policies referring to maternity to exclusively use the term they want to be referred to by.

Stonewall advised members of their Diversity Scheme to change the language to 'birthing parent', non-birthing parent' and 'pregnant person', so that said organisations could gain higher status on Stonewall's Diversity League Table. That is the issue, that is erasing the terms mother and pregnant women.

I do not agree to only reference birthing parent. I am fine with mothers and birthing parent.
Would you be?

everything I have read says the guidance is to say mothers and birthing partners.

Well, that's surely different to what is usually said on here - other posters have said that the word mother has been erased and gone puft.
Guidance apparently only says birthing partners.
You mean there might be more to it which is conveniently being left out?
Surely not....
I'm also OK with mothers and birthing partners.

@Quaggars as I mention earlier, I’ve been banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for taking issue with their use of “pregnant people”. So yeah, it has happened to me.