If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

@lifeturnsonadime

For balance article in the observer today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/06/stonewall-risks-all-it-has-fought-for-in-accusing-those-who-disagree-with-it-of-hate-speech?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Oh wait, a left leaning newspaper is also calling out Stonewall as problematic on women's rights!

Stonewall need to wake up and smell the coffee!

They are alienating a segment of the population

Normally don't like Sarah vine but she's spot on with this

Tells me all I need to know about the piece. Full of misinformation presented in a way designed to get the froth going.

The old “chest-feeding” chestnut thrown in there for maximum impact. Even though the organisations themselves have confirmed they aren’t using that as a term for all parents, only where the situation calls for it.

There is a reason this stuff belongs in the echo chamber.

@RedDogsBeg

What point am I missing? Would you have preferred if there was no amendment? I’m guessing not. So it’s fine to say ‘we shouldn’t have to enshrine this in law’ but sometimes we do. That’s the end of the story, as far as I can see.

You are missing the point that the Bill was written is such a way that unless the amendment had been put down and agreed women would have lost the right to request a same sex examiner. The point you are spectacularly missing is WHY the Bill was written that way in the first place, it should never have been an issue that had to give rise to an amendment.

Likewise the Maternity Bill for Politicians it should never have been written excluding the terms women and mother, it should never have had to be subject to amendments from the HoL.

The question is why, who benefits from the removal or obfuscation of the words women and mother it sure as hell isn't women.

But regardless, there’s an amendment to it. Why do you think it was written that way on purpose?

Even though the organisations themselves have confirmed they aren’t using that as a term for all parents, only where the situation calls for it.

Exactly! Key being where the situation calls for it.
So in my case, the situation wouldn't call for it.
In others, it would.

@EdgeOfACoin

The act that didnt go ahead and some anecdata? Is that the best you’ve got?

I don’t think it’s me who’s struggling here.

The Act isn't anecdata. The video isn't anecdata. Direct quotes from maternity policies as provided by PPs are not anecdata (though admittedly the PP hasn't provided a copy of the policy). Documented Stonewall policy isn't anecdata.

People saying 'well it hasn't happened in my experience' is anecdata.

I mean, it's up to you how much weight you accord to each piece of evidence, and clearly you think mine isn't worth much, but these all point to an overall pattern.

One person saying ‘my neighbour is a midwife and was shot for saying mother’ is not anecdata but one person saying ‘it’s not happening in any real way’ is anecdata? Sure.

It’s just someone trying to use inclusive language. That’s it.

as I mention earlier, I’ve been banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for taking issue with their use of “pregnant people”. So yeah, it has happened to me

You're taking issue with other people being included there though, seeing as it's a public space.
If you don't identify as a birthing person, then they're not referring to you then, are they?
You can carry on being mum/mother/whatever.

"pregnant people" not birthing person!
Although point still stands whichever one was being used lol

Mothers and pregnant people would be fine.

@User27392

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

‘And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least are bigoted in the same way as me on this particular issue, so I’ll turn a blind eye to multiple examples of sexism, racism and homophobia for the sake of having a newspaper back up my prejudices’

Bang on. It's exactly this kind of ignorant rubbish which makes me ignore the feminist section. Don't bring your moronic Daily Mail nonsense over here.

as I mention earlier, I’ve been banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for taking issue with their use of “pregnant people”. So yeah, it has happened to me So you tried to police how other people referred to yourself and got banned. Good. I'm sure they were happy to see you go.

But regardless, there’s an amendment to it. Why do you think it was written that way on purpose?

That's the million dollar question isn't it? Why would they write it that way? Who benefits from it being written that way? Who doesn't benefit from it being written that way? Which of those two are considered more important? Why?

So many questions so few answers. Would be nice if those who wrote those Bills would deign to answer truthfully but I won't hold my breath.

@HandfulofDust

as I mention earlier, I’ve been banned from my local Maternity Voices Facebook page for taking issue with their use of “pregnant people”. So yeah, it has happened to me So you tried to police how other people referred to yourself and got banned. Good. I'm sure they were happy to see you go.

Oh the irony🤣🤣

As in RL people are still being called whatever the heck they like.

Indeed people in real life can refer to themselves however the heck they like, the issue is with work place policies and legislation.

I skimmed it rather than read it all but I absolutely agree

I wanted a spotlight on the erasure of the word mother and I’m glad we’re getting it

So you tried to police how other people referred to yourself and got banned. Good.

So it’s ok for transmen and non-binary females to police how people refer to them, to object to being called women, etc etc, but the same courtesy isn’t extended to women? Isn’t that precisely how “pregnant people” became a thing? Because they don’t want to be called women?

You're taking issue with other people being included there though, seeing as it's a public space.

I have no problem with people who don’t wish to identify as their born sex being included if what’s being discussed applies to them. But there are ways to go about that without erasing the words women and mother from the language. I don’t identify as a pregnant or birthing “person”. I am a woman.

If you don't identify as a birthing person, then they're not referring to you then, are they?

Well yeah they were because they were talking about local maternity services, which I am currently using.

You come across as incredibly childish and unpleasant.

As do you, the most childish, unpleasant and downright nasty people are those who are throwing tantrums and want to remove the words women, mother and pregnant woman from discourse, policies and legislation because of their own insecurities.

Are these the things OP wanted me to read and "learn" about on the link?

@lljkk

Are these the things OP wanted me to read and "learn" about on the link?

Yes, the OP thinks Vine ‘has a point’ about Davina McCall’s choice of dress but so far hasn’t said what that point is.

What is a 'birthing person'?

Note how all the supporters of the language of 'birthing parent' skated over the objections by mothers who adopt and lesbians, exclusive as ever.

Lesbians still give birth?
Mother, birthing parents and adopters?

As do you, the most childish, unpleasant and downright nasty people are those who are throwing tantrums and want to remove the words women, mother and pregnant woman from discourse, policies and legislation because of their own insecurities.

Yes. But it's useful for the lurkers to see this behaviour. That's why there's so many people who have become GC after witnessing the abuse and attempts to silence women. So all good really. 🌞

@astonafar

Lesbians still give birth? Mother, birthing parents and adopters?

Why use four words when one will do - Mother - it covers and includes all the above. Perfect in it's simplicity and meaning.