If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

Provided father, dad and daddy is replaced with prostate haver, or inseminator.

Sarah Vine couldn’t give a shit about anyone except Sarah Vine

The Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Act came very close to not including the words 'woman' or 'mother'. The House of Lords pushed back but only because women on places like Mumsnet have drawn this issue to the attention to HoL members.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56204865.amp

Oh come on! They suggested changing the wording of a new clause, it was rejected, and that’s your evidence that not using ‘mother’ is now widespread? You must be able to do better than ‘something that might have happened but didn’t’.

@Orf1abc

I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them.

What a disgusting comment. Thousands of women don't have "exclusively female experiences", that doesn't make us less of a woman than you are.

I have far more in common with a transwoman, than with the type of women like you who seek to exclude and judge others.

I absolutely never implied that any woman who doesn’t get pregnant is less of a woman than one who does. I said it is an exclusively female experience. Which it is.

@EdgeOfACoin

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

But tell me - how does the Scottish govt define 'female'?

I know of one GP who is a transwoman (male) who is stated as 'female' on the GP practise's website.

maybe mumsnet needs to change its name

So how am I to get outraged about something I or no one I know has experienced

I don’t know any Jewish people. Doesn’t mean I don’t get pissed off by anti-semitism.

So it doesn’t matter how much damage she causes to say, women suffering from mental health issues because she’s happy to slag off a group of people you don’t agree with? @Pumperthepumper

Same reason some of them can support Trump. Sure he's a rapist of children and adults, domestic abuser, abandoned his children to their mothers, used prostitutes to cheat on his pregnant wife, child groomer, openly brags about sexual assault, walks in on teen girl changing, politically anti-abortion/maternity leave/accessible healthcare/birth control/social safety net programs/worker's rights never mind all of his other many issues that impact women of color, disabled women, etc. But he's anti-trans so he's better than "Creepy Joe." Feminism on this website in a nutshell.

@Somanysocks I prefer "ejaculator"

@RedDogsBeg

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

You clearly missed the fight in the Scottish Parliament to ensure that women who had been raped could request a same sex examiner rather than an examiner who identifies as a woman. Look up Johan Lamont's amendment to the Bill if you don't believe me and think very carefully why this amendment had to be put forward, it should never have been necessary.

Is this the most recent stage?:

www.thenational.scot/news/18936441.msps-overwhelmingly-vote-replace-gender-sex-rape-support-law/

I have posted this before it will be when the Daily Mail take up the fight against this utter trashing of women and girls abs I don’t mean the nonsense of women who have a penis 🙄 that things might abs hopefully will revert back to what is correct

We haven’t suddenly evolved in the last 6ish years so that now some women have a penis

I know many don’t like the idea of the DM being involved but social media isn’t enough and is terribly bullying to women

The Guardian certainly are not of the side of women and girls neither are the BBC and the Times doesn’t reach enough readers

I avoid the feminist section because no deviations in views is allowed. Even mild disagreements lead to you being called a troll and a man. Life is too short.

Oh come on! They suggested changing the wording of a new clause, it was rejected, and that’s your evidence that not using ‘mother’ is now widespread? You must be able to do better than ‘something that might have happened but didn’t’.

No, the language was in the Bill. It had got through the House of Commons.

There was a hell of a lot of pushback from women to prevent this from happening.

Women have been fighting this for a long time. And been sneered at for doing so.

Yeah, I think an Act of Parliament nearly erasing the word 'mother' from a maternity bill is pretty significant. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't think that.

don’t know any Jewish people. Doesn’t mean I don’t get pissed off by anti-semitism

Poor comparison
No one can get to our age and not know about anti Semitism.

I understand the concerns but if we
Look at historical trends the likelihood of a few poorly thinking trans rights lobbyists bringing this to bear are low risk

I think other societal risks are way higher

Spot on from Sarah Vine, amazingly. Open your ears and eyes, women.

"But the powerful and hugely influential gay rights organisation Stonewall thinks such a fundamental belief is wrong. Not only wrong, but also discriminatory and very possibly wicked.

It asserts I must not call myself mother, nor be called one. Instead, I must re-educate my brain to think of myself as 'a parent who has given birth'. Not to do so is an affront to trans people, an attack on their right to gender self-identification"

This is patently untrue. Fear-mongering nonsense written to whip up a specific audience and by god, it's working. Honestly, the anti-trans brigade here will believe anything as long as it aligns with with what they already believe. It would be funny if it weren't so sad and dangerous. Imagine what you all could do if you used all this energy for good instead of... whatever this is.

For those undermining this by criticising The Daily Mail and Sarah Vine, a lot of these issues have also featured in The Times so I'm sure they will be in other news sources too. Only last week Matthew Parris had an opinion piece in The Times on how Stonewall had lost their way any many gay men who had been closely involved were now stepping back due to their extreme position on trans issues
Personally I am amazed that many younger women do not see this as important. My generation and those before fought long and hard for women's' rights yet are now expected to accept us being airbrushed out to suit a small but vocal minority

@EdgeOfACoin

Oh come on! They suggested changing the wording of a new clause, it was rejected, and that’s your evidence that not using ‘mother’ is now widespread? You must be able to do better than ‘something that might have happened but didn’t’.

No, the language was in the Bill. It had got through the House of Commons.

There was a hell of a lot of pushback from women to prevent this from happening.

Women have been fighting this for a long time. And been sneered at for doing so.

Yeah, I think an Act of Parliament nearly erasing the word 'mother' from a maternity bill is pretty significant. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't think that.

I don’t think that - I might if it had passed. Loads of stuff gets knocked back, this isn’t an unusual occurrence.

So any real evidence? Or just more ‘my neighbour is a trans midwife who regularly reports her colleagues to the police for not using inclusive language’?

@Nodal

Spot on from Sarah Vine, amazingly. Open your ears and eyes, women.

Unless your dress is too short or you appear on the cover of vogue or you’re a Muslim or you suffer from mental health. Then the support ends.

The guidelines are about choice and inclusion. If you choose to be called a mother then literally no one is going to refuse to do so.

Exactly

I referred to the Stella Creasy discussion earlier on. It's a long talk (well over an hour).

The majority of speakers use the term 'pregnant women' but Dr Male says 'pregnant people' every single time:

I don’t see that example as particularly problematic: trans men are biologically female and as such need the same protections and provisions as women, but often choose not to access services where they would have to acknowledge their female body.
This seems completely reasonable for eg smear tests (although they should say women and people with cervixes so all the women who aren’t anatomy experts or native speakers still get checked rather than excluded) to be inclusive , but .. breast feeding. Doesn’t this mean they have confronted the reality of their ovaries, and grown a baby in their uterus, given birth more likely than not through their vagina, with a midwife possibly on a maternity ward, all this is very much a big acknowledgment of the very physical reality of being female. I don’t get stopping there and saying no I don’t have breasts nor am I a mother, I’m chest feeding. Are we saying most such babies are unplanned, not that they have embraced the benefits of being a woman from conception to birth but decided to stop there? Genuinely a bit baffled at the reasoning here.

@EdgeOfACoin

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

But tell me - how does the Scottish govt define 'female'?

And there is a Freedom of Information on the Wings over Scotland site that states that the Scottish government believe 'transwomen are women'.

I don’t think that - I might if it had passed. Loads of stuff gets knocked back, this isn’t an unusual occurrence.

Why do you think it didn't pass?

@EdgeOfACoin

I don’t think that - I might if it had passed. Loads of stuff gets knocked back, this isn’t an unusual occurrence.

Why do you think it didn't pass?

Because it didn’t matter enough.