If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

To be honest, I have a suspicion that all this isn’t so much being done in order to accommodate the sensitivities of transman who get pregnant- I mean how many are there currently, like 4? I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them.

Some people want to say "people who give birth" instead of "mother" or "chest feed" instead of "breast feed"? So what?

This
I'll still continue to be a mother.
I will still be referred to as one.
If I got pregnant again, I'd still be referred to as a mum.
If someone doesn't want to be referred to that way and nurses/doctors refer to them with their preferred terminology, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I'm still me.

Stonewall is a big charity with an income of £8,315,995 for the year ending 2019.

They are making a fortune (millions) out of training sessions - £2.5k a pop.

151 employees with 5 employees £70k to £80k and 2 earning between £100k to £110k

They need to make money. Their investments generated just over £46,000

@Pumperthepumper

Interesting how people want to derail the thread rather than discuss the issue at hand.

@EdgeOfACoin - the OP brought it up. I thought they might like to discuss this issue of policing what women wear a bit more.

But let’s talk about this erasure of women - any evidence it’s happening? Any midwives being struck off for using the word ‘mother’? Or can we agree it’s just a way of the DM squeezing more hate out of Sarah Vine?

I have a midwife friend who is v concerned about the issues, if that helps. She can't talk about it much. I hear similar guarded notes of concern from doctor friend. NHS employees have to be very careful.

In fact, I think it one is wondering why we seem to not hear much about the issues, perhaps worth considering why so many people are afraid to talk about it?

Given bomb threats, rape/death threats, doxxing, job loss, no platforming, being kicked out of groups are some of the consequences that women have faced in the past few years.

@Pumperthepumper

Interesting how people want to derail the thread rather than discuss the issue at hand.

@EdgeOfACoin - the OP brought it up. I thought they might like to discuss this issue of policing what women wear a bit more.

But let’s talk about this erasure of women - any evidence it’s happening? Any midwives being struck off for using the word ‘mother’? Or can we agree it’s just a way of the DM squeezing more hate out of Sarah Vine?

The Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Act came very close to not including the words 'woman' or 'mother'. The House of Lords pushed back but only because women on places like Mumsnet have drawn this issue to the attention to HoL members.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56204865.amp

I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them

Oh give over lol, that just seems like a load of projection/reaching on your part.
Not everything is about trans women when it comes to trans issues, even if some people on MN like to think so.

@AngeloMysterioso

To be honest, I have a suspicion that all this isn’t so much being done in order to accommodate the sensitivities of transman who get pregnant- I mean how many are there currently, like 4? I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them.

These experiences (pregnancy, giving birth, breastfeeding) have never happened to me. I like to think I'm no less a woman because of that.

who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them

I suspect this could be closer to the truth.

'Females' is a Martin Goodman though, isn't it?

@PegasusReturns

So how prevalent is it really?

It’s embedded deep into universities and government institutions, including the NHS.

If you want to keep men (and I do mean men, not trans women, although obviously this also applies to them) out of hospital wards, prisons, rape crisis centres and women’s refuges you need to understand this is absolutely where we are at: any man who says he is a woman, no matter how he looks, not matter who he is sexually attracted to can now access what used to be women only spaces on nothing more than their say so.

If you think this doesn’t apply to you or is not something you’re worried about then you have been enormously privileged.

If you have been raped you can no longer ask for a biological woman to perform the exam.

If your sister is arrested by the police she can no longer ask for a biological woman to search her.

If your mother works for the police, she can be expected to perform an intimate search on someone with a penis.

If your grandmother requests her intimate care is performed by a biological woman, the NHS now advise in their training that she is a bigot and should be “re-educated”.

If your DD wants to go on a sports camp she can now be chaperoned by a biological male and excluded if you or her object.

If you’re not concerned about this, if you don’t recognise the safe guarding nightmare that lies ahead then you need to wake up.

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

These experiences (pregnancy, giving birth, breastfeeding) have never happened to me. I like to think I'm no less a woman because of that

Not all women experience pregnancy and childbirth but only women do.

So basically if we can't stand transphobes, tough shit, we should read transphobic Daily Hate articles just because? Hmm

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

But tell me - how does the Scottish govt define 'female'?

@midsomermurderess

'Females' is a Martin Goodman though, isn't it?

That's what I thought when I first read it too "Any females want to read this article?"

Cue best Adam impression - eye rolling and "females. Brilliant" lol

Mermaids - smaller scale Total income: £902,437 with 18 employees.

No of these organisations are the kitchen table/student groups that they may portray.

They are organisations raising significant sums of money to support their cause - rent to pay, employees to pay etc.

I think a number of these charities have probably now lost their way due to the kicking they give females on social media. Some of the comments on social media have been shameful with them holding the view that savage attacks are the best way ahead.

So basically if we can't stand transphobes, tough shit, we should read transphobic Daily Hate articles just because? Hmm

Ahh, the transphobe slurs. Well if concerns about the safeguards of women and children make me a transphobe then that's fine. As clearly the word transphobe has been redefined as well to mean someone who actually gives a shit.

I keep seeing articles and tweets etc pop up about this, and thinking surely it would be so much better if antenatal/postnatal care for transmen was dealt with separately to mainstream maternity care?

There must be so many additional things to consider such as monitoring the effects of the hormones on the baby, the mental health impacts of being pregnant and giving birth as a dysphoric person as well as all the language.

It makes much more sense to provide a separate tailored service to this tiny tiny minority of people than trying to shoehorn them into the current system and making millions of women feel erased and uncomfortable in the process.

Of course trans men are important but so are women and as a pregnant woman and mother to be myself I want to be referred to as such.

I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them.

What a disgusting comment. Thousands of women don't have "exclusively female experiences", that doesn't make us less of a woman than you are.

I have far more in common with a transwoman, than with the type of women like you who seek to exclude and judge others.

the words woman and mother are being written out of legal, medical and social language

But they’re not are they really
In the many dealings I’ve had with public services , children’s services , education, the NHS etc in recent years not ONCE have I
Come across this

And nor has anyone I know

So how am I to get outraged about something I or no one I know has experienced

If it wasn’t for MN and silly DM articles it wouldn’t even be on my radar

I have far more in common with a transwoman, than with the type of women like you who seek to exclude and judge others

What, like your biology? Righty ho

It is not transphobic to want the word 'woman' to retain a meaningful definition. It is not transphobic to have concerns that the word 'mother' is being eroded from official language.

Is @RedthroatedCaracara actually one of Sarah Vine's MN socks?

Poor effort and I'm not clicking that link.

There are lots and lots of brilliant GC women who do excellent work standing up for women's rights. I don't see the point in drawing attention to that bottom feeding bigot.

That’s not what the Scottish NHS site says.

You clearly missed the fight in the Scottish Parliament to ensure that women who had been raped could request a same sex examiner rather than an examiner who identifies as a woman. Look up Johan Lamont's amendment to the Bill if you don't believe me and think very carefully why this amendment had to be put forward, it should never have been necessary.

Of course trans men are important but so are women and as a pregnant woman and mother to be myself I want to be referred to as such.

You still can be referred to as such. The guidelines are about choice and inclusion. If you choose to be called a mother then literally no one is going to refuse to do so.

So how am I to get outraged about something I or no one I know has experienced

I literally provided a link to a BBC news article about a recent Act that passed which almost removed the word 'mother'. It was about maternity leave for politicians.

Maybe you haven't experienced it, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.