If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

[RedthroatedCaracara]

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Those of us reading who are outside of the monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber to be found here are doing the right thing on a daily basis. In real time. And doing that in the knowledge that we can look back and know we weren't part of your hatred.

Yes of course. That's why lots of large organisations are leaving Stonewall. It must be because they're just haterz.

Exactly. I mean it's one thing not really listening, but it's another entirely actively putting your fingers in your ears.

Liz Truss is urging all 250 government departments to ditch Stonewall.

It's not really ambiguous, is it?!

“Exactly. I mean it's one thing not really listening, but it's another entirely actively putting your fingers in your ears.”

This. How can anyone believe it is safe to let fully formed makes to get undressed in women’s changing rooms? How can anyone believe it is ok for their daughter to accept they will not get the sports scholarship because a trans boy has got it? How can anyone think it is safe to allow trans women to force young beauticians to wax them because that’s what the law will say?

By obscuring women and mothers we end up with women losing their bodily autonomy, this is the result of not centring women in our own bodily processes.

Honestly it feels like a punch in the gut every time I see it.

You've hit the nail on the head. And me too.

@DaisiesandButtercups

I haven’t read the full thread so apologies if this has already been addressed but yes it is happening in the real world.

Breastfeeding support organisations are increasingly using gender neutral language such as parents, people and families in social media posts instead of mothers.

It is a nonsense to me that “parents” need help with breastfeeding and frankly disturbing that “families” need support in making decisions about breastfeeding. By obscuring women and mothers we end up with women losing their bodily autonomy, this is the result of not centring women in our own bodily processes.

Honestly it feels like a punch in the gut every time I see it.

Breastfeeding support organisations in the UK are currently planning that new resources should be written with gender neutral language. This to my mind is a massive betrayal of mothers and indeed babies. Like left wing political parties, not a single breastfeeding support organisation is willing to stand up for women. How can you support breastfeeding without supporting mothers?

LLLUSA even talks about supporting communities to breastfeed now!? No it was just me breastfeeding my baby I really don’t need my whole community getting involved in it thank you very much. My body, my baby, my choices.

Part of the agenda of queer theory appears to be the destruction of the family as we know it, making the word mother taboo and weakening the value society places on mother-infant bonds seems to fit well with that aim.

Not to mention the word father, it isn’t clear yet if we are now supposed to be kind by talking about the inseminating parent as well as the birthing parent.

Do transwomen and non binary people of the ejaculating kind prefer to be called the inseminating parent rather than father and will all dads be expected to accept this term in health care and parenting organisations?

Have you got any evidence of ‘chestfeeding’ being widespread among breastfeeding support groups?

And my follow up question: why do you think women lose bodily autonomy if ‘pregnant employee’ is used over ‘mother’?

You will note that I didn’t mention “chest feeding” nor “pregnant employees”.

My post was specifically about breastfeeding organisations rather than employers.

You can find the policies of the various breastfeeding organisations on their websites and their social media posts are available for all to view.

My argument about losing bodily autonomy is specific to the use of gender neutral language in maternity, currently care is intended to be woman centred. If it becomes parent centred then the woman is no longer prioritised, instead any co-parent, usually the father is given equal importance and equal say in what happens to the childbearing woman. If it becomes family centred then who else gets a say in what happens to her during pregnancy and birth? This may initially only be linguistic but language clearly matters and influences practice and policy by changing culture.

So I see this thread got corralled into FWR without even a comment

Those of us reading who are outside of the monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber to be found here are doing the right thing on a daily basis. In real time. And doing that in the knowledge that we can look back and know we weren't part of your hatred

I live my entire life outside this "monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber" where no one knows any transpeople (seriously, where are they?) and are unaware of the threats to women's lives. The battle will start when Jess-who-was-Josh comes in too hard for a tackle in the girls football team and injuries a girl. Or Maisie-who-was-Mark puts her lippy on next to my MiL in John Lewis's toilets.

I have no hatred for transwomen but I knew you can't change sex, that females are mothers (by birth or adoption) and women's rights to single sex spaces must be protected.

And I won't apologise for saying "female"

@DaisiesandButtercups

You will note that I didn’t mention “chest feeding” nor “pregnant employees”.

My post was specifically about breastfeeding organisations rather than employers.

You can find the policies of the various breastfeeding organisations on their websites and their social media posts are available for all to view.

My argument about losing bodily autonomy is specific to the use of gender neutral language in maternity, currently care is intended to be woman centred. If it becomes parent centred then the woman is no longer prioritised, instead any co-parent, usually the father is given equal importance and equal say in what happens to the childbearing woman. If it becomes family centred then who else gets a say in what happens to her during pregnancy and birth? This may initially only be linguistic but language clearly matters and influences practice and policy by changing culture.

I’ve looked up la leche league (the biggest breastfeeding support group I could think of), the breastfeeding network, the NHS website, lactation consultants of Great Britain and twins trust. Every single one of them uses the word ‘mother’, I’ve attached screenshots so you don’t have to find them.

So going back to my original point: it’s not happening in the real world, in any real way.

Jumping from ‘they’re not saying mother’ (which they are) to ‘soon women won’t have any bodily autonomy at all and the father will be the one making decisions’ is conspiracy theory territory.

And posters keep saying ‘language matters’ which I just can’t understand in this context.

@DaisiesandButtercups

You will note that I didn’t mention “chest feeding” nor “pregnant employees”.

My post was specifically about breastfeeding organisations rather than employers.

You can find the policies of the various breastfeeding organisations on their websites and their social media posts are available for all to view.

My argument about losing bodily autonomy is specific to the use of gender neutral language in maternity, currently care is intended to be woman centred. If it becomes parent centred then the woman is no longer prioritised, instead any co-parent, usually the father is given equal importance and equal say in what happens to the childbearing woman. If it becomes family centred then who else gets a say in what happens to her during pregnancy and birth? This may initially only be linguistic but language clearly matters and influences practice and policy by changing culture.

Can only upload three pics at once so here’s the others.

@RedthroatedCaracara

Those of us reading who are outside of the monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber to be found here are doing the right thing on a daily basis. In real time. And doing that in the knowledge that we can look back and know we weren't part of your hatred

I live my entire life outside this "monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber" where no one knows any transpeople (seriously, where are they?) and are unaware of the threats to women's lives. The battle will start when Jess-who-was-Josh comes in too hard for a tackle in the girls football team and injuries a girl. Or Maisie-who-was-Mark puts her lippy on next to my MiL in John Lewis's toilets.

I have no hatred for transwomen but I knew you can't change sex, that females are mothers (by birth or adoption) and women's rights to single sex spaces must be protected.

And I won't apologise for saying "female"

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

@QuentinBunbury

So I see this thread got corralled into FWR without even a comment

I'm waiting for Roy Rogers to open a ranch called 'The Lazy T' !

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Er, pp did criticise both OP and Sarah Vine for saying "female".

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Er, pp did criticise both OP and Sarah Vine for saying "female".

Oh that’s right, I forgot they said female in the OP. I apologise @RedthroatedCaracara

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Plenty of people criticise this, including on this thread. I've just put "stop saying female" into twitter or Google. There's a lot of results. This is something that women are being 'called out' on.

Tbf I only agreed with the comment that said '' very Martin Goodman'' lol

I dislike "females" as a descriptor for women too, but the absurdity of gender identity ideology means that saying "woman" isn't considered enough. And I won't be adopting the ideology's labels for us.

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

We're being forced to use language that is uncomfortable BECAUSE of the TWAW mantra. For some people women is inclusive of transwomen, this means that female is the only accurate descriptor of women as a sex class.

Gender Ideology and small changes in language that are creeping in causes these problems.

@DaisiesandButtercups

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

Any evidence that it’s happening?

I don't want people to think I am including any male people when I say "women". So needs must.

Female does always make me think of Friday Night Dinner. It always made me laugh, the dad was afraid to say the word woman or something? Also as other have noted a female of what species? Was he thinking of a female cat or dog or whatever? It seemed like the dad thought “females” were quite a different and mysterious species. Other.

Any evidence that it’s happening?

Perhaps read one of the many FWR threads about all different aspects of it across a wide range of sectors?

@DaisiesandButtercups

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

And LLL International updated their Facebook page (very easy to do) 17hrs ago (very recently) and said ‘mother’. Attached.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Any evidence that it’s happening?

Perhaps read one of the many FWR threads about all different aspects of it across a wide range of sectors?

I have. The only evidence I’ve seen that ‘mother’ is being erased is that one welsh hr policy document - not even on the welsh government documents in general, just that one specific one - where it says ‘pregnant employees’ instead of ‘mother’. That’s it.

Maybe a female sealion or something aquatic.