Response to men’s creepiness

[Undersnatch]

Joined a neighbourhood app yesterday and by today I have a private message from a man commenting that he noticed where I live and asking questions about it. Other people had said hello, welcome on the timeline but he felt the need to send a private message.

It’s a long time since I had unwanted male attention really and got me thinking about various things. I feel like I want to call it out, give feedback - a la ‘it’s creepy to get a message from a stranger commenting on where I live’. But then that self doubt of, is it? Is my barometer off because I’ve had my share of shit male behaviour over the years?

DH initially felt sorry for him when I said I may respond directly and wondered if he may have a learning disability . It’s the be kind thing innit? Don’t be direct in saying ‘you are making me uncomfortable’. But the guy now knows my face and street name. So maybe it is too risky to be direct?

I could just leave and chalk it up to experience.

What do you think?

Does this mean that a man who needs directions should try to wait for a man to ask directions from instead of approaching the first 15 year old girl he sees? Yes, unless there really is no-one else around.

If there ‘really is no one else around’ the man should absolutely not be approaching the 15yr old girl for directions. As an adult, he can work his way around that problem without involving a female child.

Jedi, I appreciate that you think you get what the issues are here. You’ve said lots of times you understand points completely, 100%. You wouldn’t engage in blatant harassment - thumbs up. I see that you agree with many points made and appear to feel misunderstood. But the idea that you are entitled to ask the child for the directions that you need, at the expense of what she might feel about it? No! You are trying to be clear that it’s not ok to approach her sexually - but she doesn’t know that. It’s just not ok.

It’s simplistic and unrealistic of you, to think women have to accept men defining the terms of social interactions. Why shouldn’t women get to make this call? Ultimately you are saying it’s because you are used to interacting with the world in the way you want, which you think is reasonable, but umpteen women are telling you they disagree, and you continue to maintain that what you want is more workable. You’ve always been used to getting what you want.

@BaseDrops

Does this mean a man has no right to ever approach a woman because he can never be 100% sure that he won't annoy or threaten? No.

Men’s right to approach women.

What are men exerting their ‘right’ to approach women doing to ensure they are considering the woman as a person?

Do all women feel unsafe when approached in any way by a man? No
Do most women feel unsafe when approached in any way by a man? Don’t know.
Do any women feel unsafe when approached in any way by a man? Yes.

Do men know which women will feel unsafe when they approach them? No.

Which means men exerting their “right” to approach women are doing so knowing that they could be making a woman feel unsafe.

BaseDrops - Which means men exerting their “right” to approach women are doing so knowing that they could be making a woman feel unsafe.

I agree completely... which is why I think that men's (and women's for that matter) right to approach women isn't one should be exercised very often. It should be done rarely and carefully and for good reason.

Do you believe that no man should EVER walk up to a woman on the street and attempt to say a sentence or ask a question because they cannot be certain that the woman won't feel uncomfortable or threatened?

Does this mean a man has no right to ever approach a woman because he can never be 100% sure that he won't annoy or threaten?

Not ''a man''. All the men. Every fucking man in every fucking public space, all the fucking time.

Imagine if all women went up to all men and asked them the same question. ''What time is it?'' How many times would you have to answer before you started to find it tedious?

@SaturdayRocks

Does this mean a man has no right to ever approach a woman because he can never be 100% sure that he won't annoy or threaten No.

So you’re OK approaching a women knowing she most likely does not want to interact with you at all?

SaturdayRocks

So you’re OK approaching a women knowing she most likely does not want to interact with you at all?

It depends. If I was completely lost, late for a job interview and she was the only one there then I would have zero problem. Absolutely none.

If you're asking if I approach women in the street for a random chat then no, I don't do that often if at all, but never say never.

I do believe that, I would prefer that, because I was harmed by a man as a child and again as a teen and an adult woman, lifelong like so many other women. You are taking the piss pushing women like this, why are you arguing with us, pushing boundaries, without listening, over and over? You're being so rude. You keep saying you understand and you agree and then contradicting yourself, using imagine are situations.
Women don't want men to talk to them on the street, especially not our 15 yr old daughters. We teach our kids not to talk to strangers because they aren't safe. You aren't safe, disregarding boundaries and blaming women.

And you keep putting your responsibility for navigating your way through the word as an adult man onto the women around you. Stop. Grow up and mind your own business, find that made up interview or address yourself.

But the idea that you are entitled to ask the child for the directions that you need, at the expense of what she might feel about it? No! You are trying to be clear that it’s not ok to approach her sexually - but she doesn’t know that. It’s just not ok.

I understand that there is no equivalence (the boy will almost certainly not be even slightly scared, will categorically not have dealt with the shit the equivalent girl has had), but does a middle-aged woman have a right to approach a 15 year old boy to ask for directions?

I don’t feel threatened by men (very lucky to have known mostly lovely ones!) but still don’t want random men coming up to me on the street to ask for directions @JediGnot. Would I feel differently if it was a woman asking? Yes. Not sorry about it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Why would I approach a child to ask for anything? There's a power imbalance between and adult and a child. They can approach me for help, I don't need them to help me. Leave them alone. Use your phone and ask Google like any rational adult. Ask in a local shop.

does a middle-aged woman have a right to approach a 15 year old boy to ask for directions?
Of course not.
You are unbelievable.

Don’t you just hate those imaginary interviews when a man hasn’t researched where he’s going, can’t possibly look at Google maps, doesn’t have a phone to phone the interviewer and ask them for directions, so he simply has to approach the lone 15 year old girl when there’s nobody else around.

I’m the sure the 15 year old isn’t thinking “shit there’s nobody else around, and this man is heading straight for me”, nope she’s definitely thinking “this must be a good man who is merely lost and only needs some directions”.

Do men know which women will feel unsafe when they approach them? No.

Which means men exerting their “right” to approach women are doing so knowing that they could be making a woman feel unsafe.

We agree - which is good.

“So you’re OK approaching a women knowing she most likely does not want to interact with you at all?”

It depends. If I was completely lost, late for a job interview and she was the only one there then I would have zero problem. Absolutely none.

If you're asking if I approach women in the street for a random chat then no, I don't do that often if at all, but never say never.

So we have a man who will approach a woman if she is the only one there if he needs something. The same man may also approach a woman for any other reason if he feels like it at the time.

This man knows that he could be making the woman feel unsafe.

This man also thinks that his behaviours are the pinnacle of consideration of women.

So the pinnacle of consideration of women feeling safe is men will consider it - unless it would inconvenience them.

Yeah. We already know that.

Women feeling or being safe around men is conditional on men’s choices.

Hai!

I like to play Devils Advocate!

When they don’t even realise that it wouldn’t even occur to a woman to ask a child because we know it’s inappropriate... talk about fighting a losing battle! 🤦🏻‍♀️

ArthurApples

why are you arguing with us, pushing boundaries, without listening, over and over?

I am listening. Maybe I am missing something, but it seems women on this thread believe -

(1) Because lots of women have been harrassed (and worse) loads by men, no man should ever approach a woman under any circumstances.

and

(2) If no man has a right to ever approach a woman then there would be nothing wrong with making it a criminal offence for a man to walk up to a woman he doesn't know. (I realize I might be making a bit of a jump here, but if men don't have the right to ever approach a strange woman, and should never do it then why don't we make it illegal like other things we don't want people doing?)

I really don't intend to be saying anything more than I don't agree with either of those things.

Jedi whatever, this is about men approaching women because they have an interest in them and they think that means they have a right to accost them as they go about their day. The man wants to chat, flirt, ask out. Etc. And so he has his big manly right to walk up to a woman on her way to Tesco to tell her his irrelevant opinion of her looks and enforce his right to interact with her.

If you are talking about saying excuse me, do you know the time? Or sorry to bother you, do you know where entitled street is to someone in the street that is an entirely different thing and nothing to do with the subject of men creeping on random women and I suspect you know that.

But, for the avoidance of doubt - asking someone if they know the time = ok.

Stepping in front of a woman who is going about her business and saying hey there, whatcha dooin' you have a nice smile what's your name? = Not ok.

HTH

Inebriation - hilarious, and tragic, all at the same time.

Maybe, it seems, perhaps.What a load of bollocks. You aren't listening and you don't give a fuck.
I think I wouldn't be the only woman in the world who thinks what you are doing on here is harassment. Fuck off, you absolute creep.

Inebriati!

@ArthurApples

Maybe, it seems, perhaps.What a load of bollocks. You aren't listening and you don't give a fuck. I think I wouldn't be the only woman in the world who thinks what you are doing on here is harassment. Fuck off, you absolute creep.

Yup, agreed.

He's definitely crossed a boundary here for sure. Yes creepy.

Hate it when this kind of thing happens and it takes females back again to survival instincts even in a seemingly neighbourly community.

In fact I'd be MORE wary in a neighbourhood as that's when others are clearly familiar with your routine.

I never keep a routine as much as I can and never divulge too much about myself even to neighbours. Sad really but it's self protection.

@redpeppersoup

When they don’t even realise that it wouldn’t even occur to a woman to ask a child because we know it’s inappropriate... talk about fighting a losing battle! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I do not recall ever being told at school that no adult should ever speak to a strange child, nor do I recall ever seeing government advertising targetting adults pushing this message?

Have I missed the message? Or is it not made?

A couple of times I have taken my son to a playground and got there to find that there is one child there already, playing alone. No-one else around. Is it acceptable to let the child join me and my son as we kick a football around? Should I say no or should I not talk to the boy at all, just blank him? Or should I leave the playground immediately as I have no right to be there with my son and a lone child?

@VettiyaIruken

Jedi whatever, this is about men approaching women because they have an interest in them and they think that means they have a right to accost them as they go about their day. The man wants to chat, flirt, ask out. Etc. And so he has his big manly right to walk up to a woman on her way to Tesco to tell her his irrelevant opinion of her looks and enforce his right to interact with her.

If you are talking about saying excuse me, do you know the time? Or sorry to bother you, do you know where entitled street is to someone in the street that is an entirely different thing and nothing to do with the subject of men creeping on random women and I suspect you know that.

But, for the avoidance of doubt - asking someone if they know the time = ok.

Stepping in front of a woman who is going about her business and saying hey there, whatcha dooin' you have a nice smile what's your name? = Not ok.

HTH

*VettiyaIruken

But, for the avoidance of doubt - asking someone if they know the time = ok.

Stepping in front of a woman who is going about her business and saying hey there, whatcha dooin' you have a nice smile what's your name? = Not ok.*

Cool - I know that you are only one voice and don't speak for all women, but I am reassured that I am not completely mad!

Anecdotal dialogue - no one knows who if anyone actually said it.
Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.

Versus

“So you’re OK approaching a women knowing she most likely does not want to interact with you at all?”

It depends. If I was completely lost, late for a job interview and she was the only one there then I would have zero problem. Absolutely none.

If you're asking if I approach women in the street for a random chat then no, I don't do that often if at all, but never say never.

We have already established what kind of a man you are. Now it’s a question of where your line is.