Response to men’s creepiness

[Undersnatch]

Joined a neighbourhood app yesterday and by today I have a private message from a man commenting that he noticed where I live and asking questions about it. Other people had said hello, welcome on the timeline but he felt the need to send a private message.

It’s a long time since I had unwanted male attention really and got me thinking about various things. I feel like I want to call it out, give feedback - a la ‘it’s creepy to get a message from a stranger commenting on where I live’. But then that self doubt of, is it? Is my barometer off because I’ve had my share of shit male behaviour over the years?

DH initially felt sorry for him when I said I may respond directly and wondered if he may have a learning disability . It’s the be kind thing innit? Don’t be direct in saying ‘you are making me uncomfortable’. But the guy now knows my face and street name. So maybe it is too risky to be direct?

I could just leave and chalk it up to experience.

What do you think?

Again, you are applying a blanket ban, not something women here have done. We have explained when, where and why we don't like it, explained when, where and why we would like men not to, said when, where and why we would prefer not to be accosted. But not asked for, mentioned, outlined a desire to never be approached by a stranger

I don't Samphire. Especially by persistent ones like Gnot.

Oh! @AdjustableAssholeSettings you proved me wrong!

Dammit!

@AdjustableAssholeSettings

I don't Samphire. Especially by persistent ones like Gnot.

I was actually coming round to the idea too!

But I walk my dog and lots of people do start conversations with me - or him! So I have become a bit more accostomed to it.

But this post has certainly made me rethink that. I may go back to being a total curmudgeon and rebuffing everyone!

CuriousaboutSamphire

"Again, you are applying a blanket ban, not something women here have done. We have explained when, where and why we don't like it, explained when, where and why we would like men not to, said when, where and why we would prefer not to be accosted. But not asked for, mentioned, outlined a desire to never be approached by a stranger"

In which case I am even more perplexed as how I have managed to make a 4 page argument out of 100% agreement! (I have form).

"I may go back to being a total curmudgeon and rebuffing everyone!" I 100% respect your right to be like that. I can be like that fairly often too.

I mean, I'll say hello to people when I'm walking the dog, if their dog wants to say hello I might even have a little chat.
But persistent males who are desperate to prove their point? It's a little... creepy

It is. And I may keep this name for next time the topic comes up!

Me, in case that wasn't obvious

@CreepyFirstTimePoster

Once you start you just can't stop

I'm quite fatigued by all that labouring over a point opinion that, quite honestly, nobody seemed interested in.

Thank you everyone for highlighting just how creepy it can be to have someone persist even though there has been a polite succession of 'no thank you's', no, and ODFOD's and they still won't get the hint and just bugger off.

Men kill, assault and abuse women in public.
Women repeat please leave us alone, don't speak to me. We teach our kids not to talk to strangers.
Man repeats endlessly that it is unreasonable to expect to be left alone in public, even if you are scared of being murdered its ok to be talked at by strange men because we exist in society together.
Man insists he is a good un, but winds everyone up by proving otherwise, lack of respect and basic manners obvious.
Keep on being part of the problem Man Here, with your opinions and feelings, carry on being part of our burden of trauma and harm, daily.

I can't help feeling that the last 40 years of divisive right wing politics has lead everyone to believe 100% in rights and 0% in responsibility and yet you're the one banging on endlessly about rights, and the right for men to approach women in public.

If you're talking about asking directions or pointing out to a woman that she's dropped a glove, then fair enough, approach away, but approaching a female who is a stranger to you and thinking you have a right to a conversation, then no that's not acceptable, and the onus shouldn't be on the woman to rebuff annoying entitled men, she should be left to go about her business, just as men are.

Jedi - as I said upthread - keep doing what you like to do. You’re entitled to, after all.

But be under no illusion now that it will be perceived as unwelcome.

JediGnot - your username is noted. I’ll notice the next time I see you on a thread. By the way, does your partner know you post on here?

If I discovered my DH posting the sorts of comments you’ve been posting on this thread, it would dismantle everything I thought I knew about him.

I’ve had an absolute shit full of entitled men today and have had to bite my tongue so I can carry on paying my rent so, as the last entitled male of my day, you get the lot.

The answer is men never approach women under any circumstance (I find that VERY difficult to accept, but maybe that's my problem) You’re making it, and yourself, the woman’s problem. She either ignores you or tells you to leave her alone, which is often met with aggression, or she acknowledges you, which is often taken as a sign that she’s up for anything the man wants to suggest. You’ve got women telling you this, and that uninvited approaches are unwanted and unwelcome and you still insist that your right to approach trumps a woman’s right to feel safe. How fucking dare you, and men like you, knowingly put women in this position? Why aren’t you listening to the women on this thread and thinking ‘bugger! I had absolutely no idea that women felt like this. I will never do that again’? What is wrong with you, that your only concern is what you’re entitled to do and how, if women don’t like it, we need to withdraw from society. Why aren’t you horrified enough to adjust your behaviour so that you go home of an evening safe in the knowledge that you’ve tried your best not to make any woman feel unsafe?

You, and men like you, who firmly believe that they have the right to approach women whenever they want, are the problem. And you seem to be expecting a pat on the back for confirming that you obviously wouldn’t get aggressive with her if she was brave enough to tell you to leave her alone?!

You claim to understand male privilege and why many women automatically risk assess every man they have contact with. You don’t have a sodding clue. It’s all bollocks. You have lots of women saying ‘do not approach us unless explicitly invited to do so’. You even have one woman expressly asking you not to engage with her, and you just can’t help yourself. You have to explain why you have the right to do what you want and why women should shut the fuck up and accept it because it’s not like you’re going to punch them if they make it clear they don’t want to talk to you.

The problem isn’t lack of equality. The problem is you.

Well Jedi succeeded in monopolizing the whole thread the tedious tool.

It comes back to the- if you can't tell when it is or isn't appropriate to talk to a woman you don't know then best not to.

This whole. You're saying men can't ever speak to a woman they don't know! Even to warn them they're about to get run over!

It's a really childish thing to say and one that loads of men come out with.

Like my work bloke 'we can't even look at a woman any more'.

It's pathetic.

Sn0tnose - great post.

Don’t feed the troll people!

'Clearly my problem is trivial compared to women's safety and women's perception of safety, but it is somewhat frustrating when one is being deliberately ignored despite going out of one's way to return a dropped bank card.'
Never happened.
Men pushing women off tube platforms, definitely happens. Women being sexually assaulted on tubes and trains and public transport, happens all the time. Men hurting women who try and ignore them happens.
All his examples of weak reasons why men have justifiable excuses to bother women never happened.
Yes women should feel safe in public, except they don't and they are afraid of you too JediGnot. You're taking the piss.

It's only creepy if you don't fancy him.

If you were single and he was handsome - then that's an extract from a novel isn't it.

Not any novel I read, veronika! And I totally disagree. Creepiness isn’t defined by someone’s attractiveness for me. The guy was reasonably attractive, probably a bit younger than me. It’s the sending of an uninvited private message in an app that’s not for that - creepy.

The novel stuff you are taking about is more like when two people have a chance encounter and detect mutual interest. Sending private messages in this way, or starting a chat with a woman who has shown no interest - nothing mutual about it = creepy.

“Only creepy if you don’t fancy him”, wow I just rolled my eyes so hard I think I saw my brain.
Even if that WERE the case (which it’s not), women are still allowed to decide their own boundaries and who they do and don’t want to interact with- even if that makes some men sad.

@Veronika13

It's only creepy if you don't fancy him.

If you were single and he was handsome - then that's an extract from a novel isn't it.

WTF!?!?!

Upthread, when I said and if you reject him you get "Fuck off you ugly bitch, I wouldn't fuck you anyway" I was under the impression that, outside Barbara Cartland readers, that was only a male thinking pattern!

Seems some women like to collude in that too!

Caveat: I haven't swooned over Mr Darcy for years, maybe I am out of practice!

Don’t you love it when the responses on a thread prove the point that the OP was making?

Like the comments under any article on feminism prove why feminism is needed.

Thanks Jedi for that 👏

Yes I thought that ballpark, it’s like the thread teased out all the issues far more than I could articulate!

And I feel really validated from (most of) the responses. It’s given me lots of food for thought about how I will need to have early and fairly explicit conversations with my daughters about how this will happen, and equip them to know it’s not their fault etc. I’m interested if others have done this and do they feel it helps? As a young woman my mum minimised crap like this happening to me and I was generally left with feelings of having caused it by what I was wearing/being friendly. I want my kids to know about their boundaries and trust their feelings without a ‘men are bad’ message. Although maybe it’s ok to say most men will not threaten you but lots will try to breach your boundaries? That feels more realistic?