Kathleen Stock OBE: Trans Women Aren't Women : A discussion

[Childrenofthestones]

It's a view held by most people, so why has it become so controversial to state that trans women aren't women? On this episode of "So What You're Saying Is..." (#SWYI) we are joined by Prof. Kathleen Stock OBE, professor of philosophy at the University of Sussex and author of the best-selling book: "Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism".

Prof. Stock discusses the issues of sex vs. gender and gender identity, and explains how trans activists, arguing that gender is psychological not physical, now claim that womanhood & manhood are genders in a social, rather than biological, sense.

She discusses the possible motives for Stonewall's decision to become so actively involved in trans rights, as well as the vilification of its outspoken critics such as Germaine Greer and Julie Bindell. Prof. Stock has herself been the target of campaigns to silence, cancel and no platform.

Prof. Stock also discusses the negative impact the more extreme trans rights positions are having on women (changing rooms, public toilets, prisons etc.) as well as the young, and gays & lesbians.

I just checked with my blender and it goes by the name Ninja. Can't find any pronouns.

Campervan are you me?

Thanks for posting OP looking forward to watching this

@Campervan69

In 1977 I had a boy's haircut, I wanted to be a boy as I thought girls were boring. I only ever wore jeans outside of school uniform. Fortunately we lived in a different time, one where it was well known that people can't change sex. Once I went through female puberty, I stopped wanting to be a boy and wanted to snog them instead.

So I grew up to be a healthy adult female and had 3 fabulous children. The end.

This is exactly the same for me too !!!

Yup me too exactly the same situation campervan.

One of the instructions in that Edinburgh university list of banned behaviours discussed recently, was that you can't say "I used to want to be a boy" to trans people. But it's incredibly important. A significan proportion of girls obviously notice that gender expectations suck, boys get an easier ride and that wanting to do/showing an interest in "boy stuff" or to not be feminine can lead to them being bullied and excluded. OF COURSE they may well have a stage of wishing they were / wanting to be a boy. In fact it was a key step along the road to being a feminist for me. Understanding this is absolutely key to helping GNC girls become happy, self-accepting women.

hey there's loads of proof

That's not an argument. You're meant to give examples of the proof and explain your argument. Otherwise how will you persuade anyone to agree with you? Do you literally think you just tell people what to think, call them names and that's all you need to do? Why?

@alankermode

hey there's loads of proof also y'all have changed your views since 77 or your hair cuts you lots are weirdly obsessed with something that will do no harm also your name sounds like a blender

That's me convinced. Who wants to listen to a philosophy professor when we have such high level analysis as this?

@Campervan69

In 1977 I had a boy's haircut, I wanted to be a boy as I thought girls were boring. I only ever wore jeans outside of school uniform. Fortunately we lived in a different time, one where it was well known that people can't change sex. Once I went through female puberty, I stopped wanting to be a boy and wanted to snog them instead.

So I grew up to be a healthy adult female and had 3 fabulous children. The end.

You really think people were not transitioning in the seventies?

OK I think I've cracked it. Kathleen Stock. You could put stock in a blender you see.Back in our youth there was an advert for a stock cube called Oxo. Possibly in 77! And the lady in the ad was called Kathy. I hope....I might be overthinking this 😕

blender is the name for the mysterious third sex.
hey there's loads of proof also y'all have changed your views since 77 or your hair cuts you lots are weirdly obsessed with something that will do no harm also your name sounds like a blender

what will always be a puzzle is how this incoherent ideology captured so many institutions. i look forward to the enquiry.

You really think people were not transitioning in the seventies?

Of course they were, but they tended to be very rare cases of extreme dysphoria, who were treated with care and able to have surgery as adults as a last resort if it was the best way to alleviate their suffering.

Not "ROGD" girls who are clearly being encouraged into thinking they are boys and told they can literally change sex. Us women who went through this and grew up happy to be women are clear examples of how wanting to be a boy did not equal being trans. It just meant we realised being a girl was crap and being a non-girly girl even harder.

The answer to that is feminism and working against gender roles controlling people's lives, and letting any girl be the kind of girl she likes. Not just shoving a girl who doesn't meet a feminine stereotype into having to be a masculine stereotype, complete with with bodily harm.

What's the difference between a blender and a smoothie maker? One is for mixing up food and the other is for fixing up moods. Needs work, I'll admit.

You really think people were not transitioning in the seventies?

what pp said- but also those who did transition (and i know a couple in the 70s-80s after much counselling) did not insist they became the other sex. they defined themselves as transexuals not as women. do you understand the difference soulman?

@alankermode

hey there's loads of proof also y'all have changed your views since 77 or your hair cuts you lots are weirdly obsessed with something that will do no harm also your name sounds like a blender

Oh, that reasoned debate has definitely made me change my mind, in just one sentence!!

(Is it regarded as a sentence if there’s no punctuation whatsoever?)

(Is it regarded as a sentence if there’s no punctuation whatsoever?)

It's poetry.

77 was a great year for women in music.

www.cherryred.co.uk/product/make-more-noise-women-in-independent-music-uk-1977-1987-various-artists-4cd-bookpack/

Stream of consciousness.

Almost Joycean. Could have been Buck Mulligan shouting up the stairs.

@alankermode

hey there's loads of proof also y'all have changed your views since 77 or your hair cuts you lots are weirdly obsessed with something that will do no harm also your name sounds like a blender

You’ve won me over!

Poetry

Snort

@ErrolTheDragon

(Is it regarded as a sentence if there’s no punctuation whatsoever?)

It's poetry.

Vogon no less.

Off to read rest of the thread.

Thy micturitions are to me,
As plurdled gabbleblotchits,
On a lurgid bee,

On the subject of Vogon poetry, does anyone know how the wonderful Bowlofbabelfish is doing? I used to love reading her posts years ago.

@allmywhat

I interpreted the rest of it, I think: the grammar fails; the missing negative; the deep confusion about what views and haircuts looked like in 1977; and the warped TRA definition of harm (if a woman gets raped, it's a statistic, if a man gets his feelings hurt, it's a tragedy.) But I fell at the last hurdle on the blender thing.

Very good effort though allmyehat

Well done you!

You really think people were not transitioning in the seventies?

Cant see where she said that

In 1977 I had a centre parting, now I have a side parting.

Wow, Kathleen Stock is impressive!