Kathleen Stock OBE: Trans Women Aren't Women : A discussion

[Childrenofthestones]

It's a view held by most people, so why has it become so controversial to state that trans women aren't women? On this episode of "So What You're Saying Is..." (#SWYI) we are joined by Prof. Kathleen Stock OBE, professor of philosophy at the University of Sussex and author of the best-selling book: "Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism".

Prof. Stock discusses the issues of sex vs. gender and gender identity, and explains how trans activists, arguing that gender is psychological not physical, now claim that womanhood & manhood are genders in a social, rather than biological, sense.

She discusses the possible motives for Stonewall's decision to become so actively involved in trans rights, as well as the vilification of its outspoken critics such as Germaine Greer and Julie Bindell. Prof. Stock has herself been the target of campaigns to silence, cancel and no platform.

Prof. Stock also discusses the negative impact the more extreme trans rights positions are having on women (changing rooms, public toilets, prisons etc.) as well as the young, and gays & lesbians.

We were once told the future would be female. That was a lie too.

Because they have transitioned, or because they always felt the gender 'male' was all wrong, and only living as a woman, identifying as a woman would end the psychological pain of being assigned a gender they felt deeply uncomfortable with

Nobody has to play roles or express in any way that they feel is unnatural for them. role playing and forms of expression is exactly what gender is. Nobody is 'assigned' a gender - apart from having parents, maybe, who try to push and enforce rigid constructions upon a developing child.

But more people accept that if someone feels so strongly they are the wrong gender, and henceforth want to live their life as another gender (or non-binary), it's their life, their business

You'll find few here who disagree with people being able to express in any way they like, certainly if it is law abiding and non harmful to others.

However, what is done or imagined in private, or in the privacy of one's own mind or imagination, becomes a public matter, and everyone's business, when it attempts to enforce itself on others and the on the meanings and negotiations of the wider world.

Organisation accept the best thing to do for their health and happiness is to accept them and treat them as women

This is meaningless outside of gender stereotypes, though.

So Bilindab do you believe that males who have had the benefit of and androgenised puberty should compete in female's sports then?

“because they always felt the gender 'male' was all wrong, and only living as a woman, identifying as a woman would end the psychological pain of being assigned a gender they felt deeply uncomfortable with.”

So a subset of “woman” can include people who aren’t happy or comfortable with being male, and so they want to be women to avoid physic pain? There are very few social categories you can legitimately join by virtue of discomfort with what you actually are, so what I don’t get is why sex has to be any different. Deep psychological pain at reality isn’t usually an excuse for you to pretend to be something else and everyone forced to go along with it.

Rachael Dolezal believes she is a black woman. She changed her appearance to conform to her idea of what a black woman should look like. She evaded questions about her past, and downright lied in other circumstances. She was given job opportunities that should have gone to a person of colour. She gave the impression that she had lived life as a person of colour and knew about their personal struggles intimately, when in reality she had no basis for that.
When this was all found out she has the piss ripped out of her. Rightly so. She was masquerading as something she was not, presenting as another race of which she had no part.
No-one was forced to go along with it.
Why should sex be different? How can you truly identify as another sex? Rachel Dolezal with always be a white woman. And trans women will always be biological men.

Welcome to the future. Things have changed.

I see the mask has slipped. Is this the new 'enjoy your erasure'?

Welcome to the future. Things have changed.

You can order me to read from your script all you like. I still won't be doing it.

@Waitwhat23

Welcome to the future. Things have changed.

I see the mask has slipped. Is this the new 'enjoy your erasure'?

Quite!

@alankermode

hey there's loads of proof also y'all have changed your views since 77 or your hair cuts you lots are weirdly obsessed with something that will do no harm also your name sounds like a blender

Well, this amazing vomited word salad sure convinced me of... something. If I could possibly sort whatever it is you're trying to say.

@Campervan69

In 1977 I had a boy's haircut, I wanted to be a boy as I thought girls were boring. I only ever wore jeans outside of school uniform. Fortunately we lived in a different time, one where it was well known that people can't change sex. Once I went through female puberty, I stopped wanting to be a boy and wanted to snog them instead.

So I grew up to be a healthy adult female and had 3 fabulous children. The end.

In 1977 I was 5 and my views on gender, as far as I can rightfully remember, were "all cats are girls and all dogs are boys" :P

Just seen this BBC news story on their home page Stonewall boss defends new strategy amid criticism
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57281448
Glad to see some mainstream coverage of the issue that might encourage others to see what’s actually happening.