Government says it is too complex to make changes to the GRA to include non binary

[stumbledin]

As set out in the response to the Gender Recognition Act consultation, there are no plans to make changes to the 2004 Act.

Following a considerable amount of consultation with the public and representative organisations, the Government decided that the current provisions within the GRA allow for those that wish to legally change their sex to do so fairly.

The 2018 GRA consultation did not bring forward any proposals to extend the GRA to provide legal recognition to a third, or non-binary, gender. The Government noted that there were complex practical consequences for other areas of the law, service provision and public life if provision were to be made for non-binary gender recognition in the GRA.

In UK law individuals are considered to be the sex that is registered on their birth certificate – either male or female. The GRA provides a means for transgender people to change the sex on their birth certificate, but there is currently no provision for those who do not identify as male or female.

This Government wants everybody in the UK to feel safe and confident to be themselves.

We are committed to tackling all forms of homophobic, biphobic and transphobic hate crime, and are working with the Home Office on the cross-Government Hate Crime Action Plan. The Government has asked the Law Commission to review the current hate crime legislation, which includes exploring whether homophobic, biphobic and transphobic hate crime should be considered an aggravated offence. We will also take an assessment of local support for hate crime victims and improve reporting and recording of LGBT hate crimes through supporting additional police training.

Following Parliamentary approval on 8th October 2020, voluntary questions on sexual orientation and gender identity were included in the 2021 Census for England and Wales which took place on Sunday 21 March 2021. Final data on sexual orientation and gender identity from the 2021 Census for England and Wales will likely be available from 2023, with initial Census findings planned for publication in March 2022 (timelines subject to change as work progresses). This will help to provide more robust population size estimates for England and Wales than are currently available.

This Government is committed to supporting all LGBT people, tackling discrimination and improving the lives of all citizens.

Cabinet Office
------

This is in response to a petition that I will not link to for fear this thread will get banished to the wastelands of the petition section.

But there is a news story here. uk.news.yahoo.com/non-binary-legal-recognition-too-153914753.html

Oh that's sad. I'm sure Stonewall can sell them a certificate for 5 pounds.

Translation. We cant legislate for something that doesn't exist.

Thank goodness for some common sense.

The Government noted that there were complex practical consequences for other areas of the law, service provision and public life if provision were to be made for non-binary gender recognition in the GRA

Well, obviously, because the legally non binary people wouldn't be able to use any services or facilities which are currently segregated by sex. So in addition to the current provision, every hospital would have to have non binary wards, there would have to be non binary prisons or prison wings, and so on.

But how have we got to a place where people are identifying as not having a sex?

In UK law individuals are considered to be the sex that is registered on their birth certificate – either male or female.

But Stonewall tells us different

Hurrah for common sense!

@Thingybob

In UK law individuals are considered to be the sex that is registered on their birth certificate – either male or female.

But Stonewall tells us different

Individuals are male or female, and that's what's registered on their birth certificates.

If stonewall 'thinks' differently, it's out of touch with both the law and plain reality.

The GRA provides a means for transgender people to change the sex on their birth certificate

To protect privacy, not because it’s possible to literally change sex.

Agree this is civil service speak for hard no.
But what’s the census count got to do with it? Either this is a real thing or it isn’t. Either it will have a huge impact on public services and resources or it won’t. Does it really matter how many people believe in it or not? Lots of people believe a lot of different things. It’s not just about anyone’s individualistic belief systems.

Is that because pretty much everyone is non binary, according to stonewall definitions?

Thank goodness for some common sense though more than they had when they wrote the nonsense gender recognition act
Recognising non binary identities would be so far from the purpose of the GRA to make it a whole new type of legislation. You can trust that the government wouldn't be free to create more loopy laws around gender without a fight this time

Sex is written into law from its inception. Even mad hatters such as TRA ought to at least educate themselves on the impossibility of any government bringing in changes that would include a 'spectrum' of sex. The government now has to balance single sex lavs, which has now been firmed up, VAWG which has to have sex at it's core and a multitude of other infringements on women's rights and freedom of speech, whilst also putting itself in the position of not being anti trans.

I think this will work through in time. The idiocy of some of Stonewalls expectations are now being heard and if Stonewall continues with its annihilation of women, it will continue to destroy its reputation and a destroyed reputation will not equal the power to change laws.

Our biggest threat is the takeover of public services and some organisations who ignore the law.

Sometimes I think it would be good if Labour were in government and so had to work through the rationale of Stonewall’s demands.

Oh dear that will upset the "Non-Binary is valid" shouters, it does also undermine the gender identity trumps all mantra it does not, not in law or anywhere else, the basis is sex and it's high time businesses, government departments, public institutions etc., understood this and upheld it.

I think non-binary identities really upset some transgender folk. Many NBs want third-spaces ie. neutral toilets because they feel unhappy in Male AND female toilets. This then provides a legitimate space for trans people to use as opposed to entering those spaces where men and women expect to be amongst their own sex.

I think in the end there will be more third spaces built into all areas of life where there are clashes with the rights to single-sex spaces. I can’t see any other solution. It’s such a painful arduous journey when certain sectors just want single-sex spaces to be abolished. Gender neutral/third spaces can be set aside for all those people who don’t mind sharing with men, women, transmen, TransWomen and non-binary/gender fluid people. Those who don’t want that, can use the Male and Female spaces - these spaces should never be dispensed with.

I wish we could arrive at that time sooner.

I don't understand, generally, in LGBTQ+ terms, why 'labels' matter so much. Why does 'authenticity' (which has pretty much lost all meaning now it's used so much) have to mean adopting a label? Can't we just be us in terms of gender identity/sexuality, without having a label? Why does gender identity/sexuality seem to matter so much more than any other part of our identity? I just genuinely don't get it. Talking about normal LGBTQ+ people here rather than activists. Male/female sex matters because women are distinguished from men by the ability to conceive and bear a child and this has many, many knock-on effects. But for the rest - I'm flummoxed.

'Non binary' was needed and pushed by the TRA's as a way of getting sex removed from legislation by further claiming it to be an irrelevance because the non binaries don't want one.

I think it's bit them in the arse.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

'Non binary' was needed and pushed by the TRA's as a way of getting sex removed from legislation by further claiming it to be an irrelevance because the non binaries don't want one.

I think it's bit them in the arse.

The logic fail was that saying sex is a spectrum and it is all about gender which is innate and then saying individuals can be non binary thus reinforcing the binary element of sex.

Their illogicality has truly bitten them on the arse.

I wonder if they looked at the case of former transwoman, then non binary James Shupe. He was the first American to get "non binary" on his birth certificate, and has since detransitioned, calling transgenderism a scam that damaged his physical and mental health.

As for the problem of complexity, it seems to me that it would be relatively simple to keep sex markers on official documents, and allow for any additional gender marker an individual identifies as. And not let the gender trump the sex.

The GRA provides a means for transgender people to change the sex on their birth certificate

Not quite. The GRA provides a means for TRANSSEXUAL people to change the sex on their birth certificate. This is about 2% of the transgender umbrella.

Why does gender identity/sexuality seem to matter so much more than any other part of our identity? I just genuinely don't get it.

Neither do I and I'm a post op transsexual.

The GRA provides a means for TRANSSEXUAL people to change the sex on their birth certificate.

Indeed. During the debates a few people tried to point out what a bunch of conceptual nonsense it was, but the response was basically "don't worry about the details, the exact wording doesn't matter because it's only going to be used by this tiny number of transsexuals".

I genuinely don't get the fervour about gender identity either. I am pretty sure I don't have one, and if I do I don't think about or care about it, and I care even less about other people's.

Parts of my personality I do think and care about, number one would be critical thinking. I challenge my views and the views of others every day. I seek out data and evidence. I expose myself to the views of others. I ask try to ask good questions and critically appraise the answers.

This is something I try to practice daily. It is a core part of who I am. It is how I form my world views. This is what matters to me. And it is quite useful. I can't even begin to think what use gender identity is, other than as a distraction to other more important things.

The Government noted that there were complex practical consequences for other areas of the law, service provision and public life if provision were to be made for non-binary gender recognition in the GRA.

How about the complex practical consequences for other areas of the law, service provision and public life caused by the legalised deception created by the GRA in the first place?

The GRA is not good law. It is divisive, discriminatory, unfair and unenforceable. It needs to be repealed.

The GRA is not good law. It is divisive, discriminatory, unfair and unenforceable. It needs to be repealed.

I dont think it's particularly good law either but it's the only differentiator right now of medicalised transsexuals versus self ID.

You take it away and you not no longer separate transgender from transsexual and you've created a far bigger problem.

Prior to GRA we had the Sex Discrimination Act (Gender Reassignment). We do need something in law to support transsexual.