Girl guiding

[nevernotstruggling]

I've just had an email about the new inclusivity and diversify and blah plan. Is it different?

[TedImgoingmad]

@SSwimCycle21

I’ve got two DDs, forgive my ignorance but does this mean anyone can ‘identify’ as a female and attend girl guide / brownie camps, sleep in same tents as girls, lead a female unit but be biological male? How is safeguarding upheld?!?
My eldest DD is also active in competitive sport and already I’m SO so angry at what is happening in female sport being eroded by male rights over females when will it end

How is safeguarding upheld? It's not.

And you as a parent are not allowed to know if your child is sharing a tent with a "transgirl". Leaders are not allowed to ask you if that is ok, because that is violating the privacy of the transgirl. Your daughter's privacy and your parental concerns are not factored in.

[SavingsQuestions]

I think I've given up hope with guiding representing girls anymore. I've taken my girls out and cant really see them being a force for women anymore. It an unbelievable shame given the unique position they hold and the good they could do. But its okay because boys who feel like girls can do "cake decorating" (no longer the cooking interest badge) or look at campaigning. Whole shift. Wish mine had gome through cubs now.

[TedImgoingmad]

Oh and adult female leaders will have no choice but to share accommodation and bathroom facilities with trans women.

[SSwimCycle21]

@TedImgoingmad so zero safeguarding for our young women then?! How? I’m genuinely shocked it’s no wonder they are struggling to keep leaders, my DD lost her brownie leader last year she “retired” fed up with all the policy stuff. Makes me so sad that yet another area of girls life is being by eroded by male rights, and yet I feel so hamstrung in being unable to respond effectively.

I’m starting to feel an anomaly at work not putting my pronouns in my email signature I genuinely feel like the world is going mad!

[Lifeaintalwaysempty]

Really disappointing isn’t it. I’m conflicted, I think it’s such a great organisation for girls and young women but this is completely ridiculous

[PassGo]

Who gets to decide on this? Who put them in that position and can they be voted out or somehow replaced? Were any Guide Leaders or parents consulted at all? Is it possible to take the decision makers to court?

[TiltTopTable]

Well making the Girl Guides mixed sex certainly meets their agenda to be more inclusive and diverse doesn't it?! How about comply with the EA, which is what they should be doing, and allow girls a safe single sex environment?

Ads for GG volunteers keep popping up on my fb timeline. I did consider it for a nanosecond, but I suspected it would be a minefield of wokeness and reality denial. Turns out it is!

[womanity]

[quote SSwimCycle21]@TedImgoingmad so zero safeguarding for our young women then?! How? I’m genuinely shocked it’s no wonder they are struggling to keep leaders, my DD lost her brownie leader last year she “retired” fed up with all the policy stuff. Makes me so sad that yet another area of girls life is being by eroded by male rights, and yet I feel so hamstrung in being unable to respond effectively.

I’m starting to feel an anomaly at work not putting my pronouns in my email signature I genuinely feel like the world is going mad![/quote]
Google Helen Watts and girlguiding. Your jaw will be on the floor.

Helen is (or was) an MNer.

[nevernotstruggling]

This is so sad. Our unit from brownies to senior leaders is very tight knit and I know the leaders well. For now I will see what happens as I doubt our local leaders are a driver in this fiasco at all.

[RebeccaCloud9]

Just had the email and cam here to see your opinions! I thought it was a pretty pointless email, full of every cliche and jargon yet not actually saying anything!

[BlackeyedSusan]

@SSwimCycle21 you might need it.

[NoSquirrels]

If they would be properly open about it being a mixed sex organisation, and conducted their safeguarding on that basis, I would regain some respect for them. Or uphold their single sex exemption. Either way. But this ‘single gender’ organisation boils my piss.

[SSwimCycle21]

I agree @NoSquirrels be open about it being a mixed gender organisation would be far more sensible if they feel unable to maintain the single sex groups.

I’m drafting a reply to their inclusivity email, I’m sure it will fall on deaf ears but at least my thoughts will go on record. Just hope that doesn’t get my DD struck off ...or I may find that’s not ‘inclusive’ enough..

[IntoAir]

‘We’re sorry if anyone has felt excluded by us...’

Tell that to Katie Alcock.

[AppleKatie]

I also read it with a sinking heart and then couldn’t work out what new things they are actually saying.

The disconnect between what comes from the top and what goes on in my local area couldn’t be bigger.

There is 0 chance of a trans woman/girl slipping unnoticed into one of our local units.

There are a couple of trans boys and they are supported but have their own facilities and private sleeping arrangements at camp. It’s also not a secret- parents/girls knew long before the leaders did!

There are girls in my unit and district from a diverse range of backgrounds- similar to the make up of the area. When I have lived in different parts of the country my unit has been made up of different ethnicities as you would expect as representative of the local area.

I don’t understand or recognise GGUK’s concerns and I fear their ‘solutions’.

[NiceGerbil]

Boom! Here it is out in public.

Had a squiz through.

Yes it is self ID.

They say girls will support it as most believe transgender people should not be discriminated against.. That's not actually the same question!

The inclusion in residentials bit says literally nothing about how it will be handled.

Guide leaders must prioritise ensuring that every girl is super welcome by all the others.

Talk about balancing eg religion with other things. Then says trans inclusion is important.

Has pages quoting various laws to imply it would be illegal to be a single sex org.

Has said their royal charter as an org for girls means mixed sex as TGAG.

whole thing seems skewed towards this topic surprise surprise.

Most pages have s thing saying if you hear from the press send them to head office. IE they have s statement ready for the press.

Will be interesting to see what happens next...

[NiceGerbil]

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/diversity-and-inclusion/

[NoSquirrels]

They say girls will support it as most believe transgender people should not be discriminated against.. That's not actually the same question!

Brilliant. It’s about safeguarding and children and teens aren’t - and shouldn’t be - responsible for that. That’s an adult policy decision.

The GG make me madder than most things about this ‘debate’.

[Leafstamp]

For reference:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/supporting-trans-members/

...we uphold our promise to support all girls and young women including trans girls...

[mogloveseggs]

@TedImgoingmad

mogloveseggs it was the Research Pool consultation, now called the Insight and Innovation Pool. Would have come round in an email or in one of the newsletters in 2019. You could volunteer to be a consultee. They spoke to about 500 out of 1200 volunteers.

Oh god how did I miss that

[NiceGerbil]

I just admit I didn't spot that either.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

I'll be interested to know how GGUKs new policy is viewed internationally (WAGGGS?). In some countries, it can only exist as it is Single Sex .

[NiceGerbil]

I doubt there will be much? I mean I don't know.

I wonder what the parents and press make of it.

I assume the charities commission is fine with them having an exemption for equality not based on sex but on self id gender. Even though that does discriminate between male children and female children on a fairly arbitrary basis.

Just realised I didn't see anything about whether trans boys or non binary females would be allowed to join/ continue to be a member if they change their pronouns etc.

[MaryGubbins]

I think the old rules were a girl who no longer identifies as a girl would be signposted and supported to move to a more appropriate organisation.

That’s what makes me mad. Guides should be a place girls can be themselves and be gender non conforming. If girls are exploring their identity they shouldn’t have to decide and get moved along. Surely single sex groups are the place to explore your identity?

I’m so disappointed. Guiding was a big part of my childhood and teens. A lot of that involved camping, being filthy, hiking etc. It was a really important space where girls could do all that without boys present. I’d hate to think of a girl who is exploring her gender identity being excluded from that.

[MaryGubbins]

When I say be gender non conforming I mean that the point of guides etc is (to me) a space where girls can try out lots of things including “things that aren’t typically feminine.” Which I appreciate we would in an ideal world just refer to as “things.”